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Qarx
Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 3285
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
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 Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Sarg338 wrote: | | Qarx wrote: | Neither card has that effect. The activation and the effect of the card will still happen.
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weeelll, apparently, it DOES do that to some cards. Link to Card Ruling of MST
One such example is using it on Macro Cosmos.
"Macro Cosmos: If "Mystical Space Typhoon" is chained to "Macro Cosmos's" activation to destroy it, then you will not Special Summon "Helios - The Primordial Sun". Because "Macro Cosmos" is a Continuous Trap Card, it needs to remain on the field to resolve."
I never understood this part of the game. Spell Speed, or whatever the hell it is, confuses me. |
I wasn't aware of just how many cards could have their effects negated because of MST. I think their activation is still counted, such as if there's another card that has an effect that activates because a Spell got activated... though I can't think of any examples >_>.
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Xpertlefty13
Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Georgia. (Iceland if you wish.)
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| Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Woah, that doesn't make sense. Read MST. The special summoning of Helios is a direct effect of the trap card, not continuous, so you should be able to summon Helios, but after that the card is destroyed and things aren't removed from play (by that card, anyway).
Look up MST, read it carefully. Look up Macro Cosmos, read it carefully. Next time someone says this, make your case that you get Helios, and you should win...
EDIT:
MST: "Destroy 1 spell or trap card on the field."
It DOES NOT say negate its effect.
Macro: "You can Special Summon 1 "Helios - The Primordial Sun" from your hand or Deck when you activate this card."
Here's the order of events, technically:
Flip up Macro Cosmos
Opponent flips MST
Helios is Special Summoned
MST's effect goes into action, Macro Cosmos is destroyed
EDIT2:
Sarg, you're right, the wikia says "Because "Macro Cosmos" is a Continuous Trap Card, it needs to remain on the field to resolve."
BUT the continuous part isn't talking about the summoning of Helios. Unless, that doesn't matter, but it should...
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Sarg338
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
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anonymous_97
Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 0
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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GuitarGeek08
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:44 am Post subject: |
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The Dungeon Dice Monster thing was good on the GBA and not much else. But id love to play online cards on some free programs.
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| Xpertlefty13 quoting me in his Acc Thread wrote: | Honestly, thank you
This is the first real, well thought-out explanation I've seen |
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Sarg338
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| GuitarGeek08 wrote: | | The Dungeon Dice Monster thing was good on the GBA and not much else. But id love to play online cards on some free programs. |
go to BYOND.com and make an account. The 3 links above are the most popular 3 on the site.
Dungeon Dice Monsters has really kind of grown on me. Been playing it the past couple of days at the link above. |
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GuitarGeek08
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Not up on the new cards though. Is that a problem? What resources are out there to help?
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| Xpertlefty13 quoting me in his Acc Thread wrote: | Honestly, thank you
This is the first real, well thought-out explanation I've seen |
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Sarg338
Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| GuitarGeek08 wrote: | | Not up on the new cards though. Is that a problem? What resources are out there to help? |
Well, if you want to get to know the new cards, the best way is to just read about them. use the Wikia link on the front page, find a deck you think you would like, then look up and read the cards in the deck so you know what to do with them. |
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Reakt00r
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Xpertlefty13 wrote: | Woah, that doesn't make sense. Read MST. The special summoning of Helios is a direct effect of the trap card, not continuous, so you should be able to summon Helios, but after that the card is destroyed and things aren't removed from play (by that card, anyway).
Look up MST, read it carefully. Look up Macro Cosmos, read it carefully. Next time someone says this, make your case that you get Helios, and you should win...
EDIT:
MST: "Destroy 1 spell or trap card on the field."
It DOES NOT say negate its effect.
Macro: "You can Special Summon 1 "Helios - The Primordial Sun" from your hand or Deck when you activate this card."
Here's the order of events, technically:
Flip up Macro Cosmos
Opponent flips MST
Helios is Special Summoned
MST's effect goes into action, Macro Cosmos is destroyed
EDIT2:
Sarg, you're right, the wikia says "Because "Macro Cosmos" is a Continuous Trap Card, it needs to remain on the field to resolve."
BUT the continuous part isn't talking about the summoning of Helios. Unless, that doesn't matter, but it should... |
I don't know if you have already figured it out, but it is indeed correct and Macro Cosmos will not activate because the effect will dissolve if you chain it with MST because every Continious Magic or Trap card needs to "survive" the activation before being able to use it's effect, no matter what the effect does.
| Qarx wrote: | Here's a different scenario: Player 1 activates Call of the Haunted. Player 2 activates MST/Twister; CotH will summon the chosen monster, then is destroyed by MST, and because of the effect of CotH, the monster is destroyed, too. This is a much better point of activating the card (unless the monster is Jinzo XP), since you prevent its effect from being useful... at least, I think that's the order of the effects. Since it's a chain, and it's been a while since I've played, I'm not sure the order of what goes on  |
Wrong. Because Call of the Haunted is a Continious Trap Card, the monster won't be summoned because the activation needs to be resolved before the effects can activate.
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card.
The part about the chain order and stuff is fine though ;P
Also: if you're unsure about certain things involving the rulings of Yu-Gi-Oh! you should use netrep, it's the most legit source apart from Konami. |
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DragoonKain 
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Reakt00r wrote: |
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card. |
Actually, Premature Burial shouldnt summon the monster before MST activates since only *costs* activate before their resolve time. Since MST destroys the needed Equip Spell to RECOVER the monster from the graveyard, it isn't recovered.
By the way, the reason Premature Burial is banned is because it is a spell card. Many more cards deal with trap negation than spell negation, and only spells can be activated from the hand (provided you're using a deck compliant with the banned/limited/semi-limited list, at least). Call of the Haunted also remains on the field if the monster it's attached to is tributed or otherwise sent to the Graveyard/removed from the field without being destroyed, thus needlessly taking up a spell/trap slot on the field. Furthermore, a Premature Burial/Giant Trunade combo leaves the monster on the field and allows you to re-use Premature Burial, whereas Giant Trunade causes the monster attached to Call of the Haunted to be destroyed.
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Qarx
Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 3285
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Reakt00r wrote: |
| Qarx wrote: | | Here's a different scenario: Player 1 activates Call of the Haunted. Player 2 activates MST/Twister; CotH will summon the chosen monster, then is destroyed by MST, and because of the effect of CotH, the monster is destroyed, too. This is a much better point of activating the card (unless the monster is Jinzo XP), since you prevent its effect from being useful... at least, I think that's the order of the effects. Since it's a chain, and it's been a while since I've played, I'm not sure the order of what goes on |
Wrong. |
I was already corrected on that XP.
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Reakt00r
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: |
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card. |
Actually, Premature Burial shouldnt summon the monster before MST activates since only *costs* activate before their resolve time. Since MST destroys the needed Equip Spell to RECOVER the monster from the graveyard, it isn't recovered. |
You're still wrong. Premature Burial is treated specially because it doesn't act like an Equip Card. The reason for that is that it doesn't actually picks a target before resolving like other spell cards, and is therefore also treated as a Normal Spell Card when activated. The moment the monster is Special Summoned from the graveyard is when it's an actual Equip Card (or when the card is in your deck, hand etc).
I know for a fact this is how it worked because I've been an official judge for Battle City and they actually said this was the correct way of dealing with it when the problem arrived.
And my point still stands: It's one of the reasons, not the only one, that it was banned. |
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DragoonKain
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Reakt00r wrote: | | DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: |
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card. |
Actually, Premature Burial shouldnt summon the monster before MST activates since only *costs* activate before their resolve time. Since MST destroys the needed Equip Spell to RECOVER the monster from the graveyard, it isn't recovered. |
You're still wrong. Premature Burial is treated specially because it doesn't act like an Equip Card. The reason for that is that it doesn't actually picks a target before resolving like other spell cards, and is therefore also treated as a Normal Spell Card when activated. The moment the monster is Special Summoned from the graveyard is when it's an actual Equip Card (or when the card is in your deck, hand etc).
I know for a fact this is how it worked because I've been an official judge for Battle City and they actually said this was the correct way of dealing with it when the problem arrived.
And my point still stands: It's one of the reasons, not the only one, that it was banned. |
Normal Spell Cards don't activate until they resolve; the monster can't be revived without the Equip Spell being on the field. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If MST is chained, there should be no way for the effect of the card to activate before MST.
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Reakt00r
Joined: 18 May 2009
Posts: 641
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: | | DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: |
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card. |
Actually, Premature Burial shouldnt summon the monster before MST activates since only *costs* activate before their resolve time. Since MST destroys the needed Equip Spell to RECOVER the monster from the graveyard, it isn't recovered. |
You're still wrong. Premature Burial is treated specially because it doesn't act like an Equip Card. The reason for that is that it doesn't actually picks a target before resolving like other spell cards, and is therefore also treated as a Normal Spell Card when activated. The moment the monster is Special Summoned from the graveyard is when it's an actual Equip Card (or when the card is in your deck, hand etc).
I know for a fact this is how it worked because I've been an official judge for Battle City and they actually said this was the correct way of dealing with it when the problem arrived.
And my point still stands: It's one of the reasons, not the only one, that it was banned. |
Normal Spell Cards don't activate until they resolve; the monster can't be revived without the Equip Spell being on the field. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If MST is chained, there should be no way for the effect of the card to activate before MST. |
Ah yes, you are actually correct. Because the requirement is missing the card's effect should be dissolved, strange how it was accepted back then (or I've mistaken MST for another card)...
Also, there are no Spell Cards that activate before they resolve, so I don't really see why you felt like adding that. |
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DragoonKain
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 942
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| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Reakt00r wrote: | | DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: | | DragoonKain wrote: | | Reakt00r wrote: |
This is also one of the reasons why Premature Burial is banned and Call of the Haunted isn't: with Premature Burial, the monster is actually summoned because it's an Equip Card and not a Continious Magic Card. |
Actually, Premature Burial shouldnt summon the monster before MST activates since only *costs* activate before their resolve time. Since MST destroys the needed Equip Spell to RECOVER the monster from the graveyard, it isn't recovered. |
You're still wrong. Premature Burial is treated specially because it doesn't act like an Equip Card. The reason for that is that it doesn't actually picks a target before resolving like other spell cards, and is therefore also treated as a Normal Spell Card when activated. The moment the monster is Special Summoned from the graveyard is when it's an actual Equip Card (or when the card is in your deck, hand etc).
I know for a fact this is how it worked because I've been an official judge for Battle City and they actually said this was the correct way of dealing with it when the problem arrived.
And my point still stands: It's one of the reasons, not the only one, that it was banned. |
Normal Spell Cards don't activate until they resolve; the monster can't be revived without the Equip Spell being on the field. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If MST is chained, there should be no way for the effect of the card to activate before MST. |
Ah yes, you are actually correct. Because the requirement is missing the card's effect should be dissolved, strange how it was accepted back then (or I've mistaken MST for another card)...
Also, there are no Spell Cards that activate before they resolve, so I don't really see why you felt like adding that. |
Well you were differentiating between the Equip Spell effect of it and the "Normal Spell" effect of it; I was saying that neither activates before it resolves. Obviously no card activates before it resolves.
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