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youhas 
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3015
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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 Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| Metalhead911 wrote: | | Most of them are films that something's wrong with you if you haven't seen (Titanic, the original Star Wars, Jaws, the first two Godfathers, Wizard Of Oz, Snow White) in your childhood. |
I never saw Titanic during my childhood. BECAUSE THE FILM DIDN'T COME OUT UNTIL I WAS IN COLLEGE. [sobs uncontrollably] [shoos kids off my lawn]
Anyhow: I agree with the commentary upthread that the AFI Top 100 list isn't perfect. There are some films which are classics in the "you should really totally watch this once, for the impact!" sense... which you may never have the inclination nor impetus to see again. (I've never seen it, but I've had multiple friends reference "Raging Bull" on this front.) And, on the other hand, there are some marvelous films on the list that can be enjoyed time and again. (For my money's worth, "Dr. Strangelove" holds up surprisingly well, even though it's a Cold War Era black comedy.) Seeing them rated in one monolithic list - weighting popularity, critical acclaim, historical impact, and everything else into a singular number - is a touch wonky in the best of times.
| wallflower wrote: | | Full Metal Jacket. Now. |
Co-sign. Even though I understand where some folks are coming from when they're all, "the first part of the movie was, like, 6 STARS WTF SO INTENSE so the rest of the movie felt like a touch of a letdown." Still an absolute classic.
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dspoonrt
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 2449
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I haven't been on here in a while but usually stop in from time to time to see what's going on in the movie thread. It's awesome that this thread is still one of the most active on the forums.
I just skimmed through the AFI Top 100, and I've seen exactly 51 of them (thank you film degree). I would agree with some that it's a worthy endeavor to want to work through AFI's Top 100, but would have to agree with others who say that watching them all may be a bit of a waste of time. In my opinion, some of their picks from the 40s and 50s are lackluster. The list definitely needs more film noir and classic horror. Overall though, the AFI list is fairly well-rounded in representing American film. A more comprehensive list would include foreign titles, as well (you might need a Top 200 list for that task, though).
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wallflower
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| youhas wrote: | | Co-sign. Even though I understand where some folks are coming from when they're all, "the first part of the movie was, like, 6 STARS WTF SO INTENSE so the rest of the movie felt like a touch of a letdown." Still an absolute classic. |
Kubrick is a film-maker's film maker. If you were let down in any way, then it's because something went over your head. |
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SDoner8790
Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 2189
Location: Pittsburgh Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 2:35 am Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | youhas wrote: | | Co-sign. Even though I understand where some folks are coming from when they're all, "the first part of the movie was, like, 6 STARS WTF SO INTENSE so the rest of the movie felt like a touch of a letdown." Still an absolute classic. |
Kubrick is a film-maker's film maker. If you were let down in any way, then it's because something went over your head. |
How old are you?
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wallflower
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| 23. I fail to see what you're getting at. Most of my movie analytical skills comes from my brother who is 4 years the younger. |
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youhas
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3015
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | Kubrick is a film-maker's film maker. If you were let down in any way, then it's because something went over your head. |
Eh. "If you didn't like or 'get' some part of the movie, the problem is with you, not the filmmaker!!!" is not really a point that is going to resonate with a ton of people. People like what they like, and they don't like what they don't like, and trying to tell someone that they are liking the "wrong" thing (or liking something in the "wrong" way) is likely to end poorly. At best, you'll get people wondering who made you the magical arbiter of quality, eye-rolling at the pretension; at worst, folks will assume that you've just point-blank called them stupid, and a vigorous round of "go fuck yourself" replies are likely to pour forth.
Did Kubrick put a crazy amount of preparation into his work? Yes. Did he have a strong vision for precisely how he wanted a film to look, striving to reify those mental images? Assuredly. Does that mean that his movies are universally and uniformly awesome beyond comment? Of course not. Different folks have differing tastes and will gloss over some matters (or be unduly irked by them) in differing capacities. "Man, that first half-hour was SO INTENSE that I used up all my adrenaline and was a little bit tapped out for the rest of the film" is a perfectly reasonable observation / response / critique, even if it's one I didn't particularly experience myself.
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wallflower
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| youhas wrote: | | "Man, that first half-hour was SO INTENSE that I used up all my adrenaline and was a little bit tapped out for the rest of the film" is a perfectly reasonable observation / response / critique, even if it's one I didn't particularly experience myself. |
If you're simply watching a Kubrick film for entertainment value, then I advise you to take a step back and ponder a bit.
Herds of people have been studying Kubrick's films for years and years. There's layers of depth and symbolism that take his films beyond regular films. I hate to be an arrogant/pretentious prick, but if you don't agree with me it's because you haven't spent the time exploring.
Likewise is David Lynch, and recently Shane Carruth.
Last edited by wallflower on Mon May 13, 2013 5:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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youhas
Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3015
Location: Santa Clara, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | If you're simply watching a Kubrick film for entertainment value, then I advise you to take a step band and ponder a bit.
Herds of people have been studying Kubrick's films for years and years. There's layers of depth and symbolism that take his films beyond regular films. I hate to be an arrogant/pretentious prick, but if you don't agree with me it's because you haven't spent the time exploring. |
[shrug] People have all sorts of motivations for consuming the media they do. Some people are looking for Refined Art and the opportunity to analyze a work on multiple levels; some people just want to have a cool story presented to them over a bucket of popcorn with some friends. I understand from whence you are coming: "if your core desire was to experience X, then perhaps Media Offering Y is not an optimal fit" is a reasonable position to stake out. (I don't know of anyone who read James Joyce's "Ulysses" for the plot or expecting a light action-adventure tome.)
That said: the "I am arrogant/pretentious, and if you can't feel the radiant brilliance, you just suck" gambit is the least effective way to convert anyone to your mode of thinking. It probably feels great, being that self-righteous!... but it will actively alienate others who might otherwise have actually sympathized with you under other circumstances.
My constructive criticism would be to reframe the argument. Don't tell me, by fiat, that the film is awesome and folks are drooling dunderheads if they don't get it; explain why I should be so enthused by the film. You're enthusiastic about the film, and you love it; share that love, and show people the inner workings, and maybe make them inch towards loving it as much as you do. "See how Character A says Phrase X here? And then in totally different circumstances an hour later, Character B says the exact same phrase, but it has a crazy different meaning? Isn't that neat?!?" "Oh, man: in other films from this era, they would use Process J to emulate the sorts of special effects they needed for the scene. But in this film, even though it was way more expensive and took a lot longer - and only folks who are nit-pickers would notice - the director insisted on using Process K. But that's how devoted he was to making sure the audience saw the perfect film."
See? Instead of being an intolerable stalwart, you're now an accessible enthusiast. Instead of driving folks off with waves of pretension, you're now a magnet for intellectually curious individuals who would care to learn more. Obviously, I'm not suggesting that you have to adhere to such a path. I'm just casually suggesting that if your core desire is "enlightening and persuading others" rather than "being correct no matter the circumstances", it's a much more pleasurable route to go. 
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wallflower
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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I went that route for a long time and I was lumped in with conspiracy theorists by just about everyone. You could just say I'm a little bitter.
It's far better for people to come up with their own theories and discuss than it is to just preach. |
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PiemanLK
Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 4711
Location: /export/home
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | I went that route for a long time and I was lumped in with conspiracy theorists by just about everyone. You could just say I'm a little bitter. |
Conspiracy theorists are dumb and so is your opinion
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[quote=''Otend'']Id come up with a long post, but Pieman said what we are all thinking, as usual[/quote]
[quote=''youhas'']EDIT TO ADD: Hey, post #3000! Neat! I will eagerly anticipate my set of ScoreHero-branded steak knives within six to eight weeks.[/quote]
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wallflower
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:26 am Post subject: |
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My opinion that Kubrick is the best is dumb?
Alright. |
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GuitarHailz 
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4910
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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I gotta say, I've missed youhas posts.
I've missed a lot of things...
So, has anyone seen the Great Gatsby? It looked like an interesting film and I had hopes that it could be good, but there seems to be disparity between the Critic (48%) and Audience (84%) ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. Curious if it was actually any good (I'm gonna take my sister out next weekend, trying to decide if the movie is worth seeing or if we should just do something else)
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MehPlusRawr
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
Posts: 1389
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | Not to be a prick, but my opinion is objectively correct and if you disagree then you are objectively wrong. Just saying. |
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GregoryZero 
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 2338
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | If you're simply watching a Kubrick film for entertainment value, then I advise you to take a step back and ponder a bit. |
There is a difference between appreciating the qualities of a work and mindlessly circlejerking all over it because you like it, you know.
Even though I have never seen a Kubrick film myself, from what I've heard they're generally good and are very well written. As far as an endorsement goes, that's more than enough for me. Going on to say something like
| wallflower wrote: | | There's layers of depth and symbolism that take his films beyond regular films. |
reeks of rampant fanboyism to me.
Anyway, from what I've heard The Great Gatsby is pretty good even though from what I recall first impressions were bad. I'll most likely not see it since I don't care enough. I disliked the book and never watch movies anymore.
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dspoonrt
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 2449
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| wallflower wrote: | | It's far better for people to come up with their own theories and discuss than it is to just preach. |
You say it's better for people to come up with their own theories on movies, but then you discredit everyone else's opinions.
I studied Kubrickian film in college under a professor that himself went to high school with Stanley Kubrick and studied the art of film (mainly Kubrick, along with his literary inspirations) for the last several decades. I believe that many of Kubrick's films are exquisite works of art worthy of awe and study, but like Youhas keeps saying, in order to convince others of this stance, you need to put forth a compelling argument. Here's one: Kubrick primarily adapts great works of literature, but instead of lazily recreating the source material, he transforms it into something new, different, exciting, and worthwhile. He utilizes nontraditional filmic techniques (fast motion shots, slow motion shots, sharp cuts, even jump cuts) to emphasize certain thematic elements, yet for the most part Kubrick keeps his films surprisingly accessible to general film audiences. His films are well written, showcasing vibrant and memorable dialogue; however, many of films make use of music (classical and otherwise) with even greater impact than the spoken word. All things considered, Stanley Kubrick has made some of the finest American films of all-time.
That said, you're going to have to use more than pedantic lecturing to make any headway talking about movies in an online forum.
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Check out my songs on GHTunes for GH:WT (Xbox 360):
"Power Surge," "Funk You," "Grindsaw Groove," and "DisorderlyConduct"
- all charted by dspoonrt
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