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Community vs Trogdor: Progress thread
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GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the hit window issue caused entirely by framerate then?
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LocalH  





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sixstringcal wrote:
Well something I just noticed is my cheap capture device (easycap) captures around 29 FPS. I don't know if it has to do with the system outputting it, or if the ps2 or xbox 360 can figure that out and output fewer FPS. I'm gonna try it. If this works, I will be happy. I'll try on both Xbox and PS2.

Red herring. Analog SD video is interlaced, and in NTSC regions is 59.94Hz, which is the field rate (a field is a half-frame, even and odd scanlines). When each set of two fields are combined in a capture device, the resulting frame rate is 29.97fps, but the frame consists of two different 1/60th second moments in time.

GH2 runs at 59.94Hz, period (except for PS2 PAL, which runs at 50Hz).
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GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LocalH wrote:

GH2 runs at 59.94Hz, period (except for PS2 PAL, which runs at 50Hz).

What if the GPU couldn't keep up and forced the game to run at a lower framerate? Would the game slow down? Or what it effect the hit windows at all?
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Sixstringcal  





Joined: 17 May 2016
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm pretty sure it did nothing for the PS2 (I tested it, but I don't even know how the strumming would go anyways, so My test is pretty inconclusive). But when I tried it on XBox 360 (besides the fact that my hands were frozen and I haven't played on the GH2 engine in a few months and was playing with input lag on my laptop), something strange happened.

I'm used to playing on AV cables, so I know what it's supposed to look like, but after playing only off of my computer monitor using the easycap and plugging it into my TV using the same AV cables (without turning the Xbox 360 off), the color was different, and well, it's hard to explain, but after turning the Xbox off and back on a little later, the color was back to normal and the other things different seemed to go back to normal also.

Because I'm trash at the engine and don't know the strumming, I would encourage all of you to try this. I might try to make a video about this, but I'm not entirely sure that my phone camera would do a good job at displaying this. I'm sure you can find an easycap (or some other cheap low-fps AV capture device, but an easycap is only around $10 or something). I'm 87ish% sure that this will work on Xbox.

Something to note though, I'm using an Xbox 360 Slim, and it drops frames like crazy, so that also might have something to do with it.
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LocalH  





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GingerBraFace wrote:
LocalH wrote:

GH2 runs at 59.94Hz, period (except for PS2 PAL, which runs at 50Hz).

What if the GPU couldn't keep up and forced the game to run at a lower framerate? Would the game slow down? Or what it effect the hit windows at all?

In my experience, the time-critical input thread happens at vertical blank, even if rendering is dropping frames. The "10-song" store demo is really bad for this when you hack an unlock all cheat code into the game, see here.
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GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 340
Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LocalH wrote:
GingerBraFace wrote:
LocalH wrote:

GH2 runs at 59.94Hz, period (except for PS2 PAL, which runs at 50Hz).

What if the GPU couldn't keep up and forced the game to run at a lower framerate? Would the game slow down? Or what it effect the hit windows at all?

In my experience, the time-critical input thread happens at vertical blank, even if rendering is dropping frames. The "10-song" store demo is really bad for this when you hack an unlock all cheat code into the game, see here.


That's a shame. I did some research into overclocking a PS2 a while ago. Turns out the CPU and the GPU clock speeds are tied together. If you try to overclock either, then the video output is at a funky refresh rate. It might be possible to underclock both the CPU and GPU to roughly 50hz and then maybe use a scart to HDMI coverter that supports both 50 and 60hz. But this isn't something I can really test. The PS2 that I was going to test it on is sadly PAL :/ Also, I don't know if my solution for the refresh rate issue would work. Maybe one day I'll get my hands on an NTSC PS2 and I can try some of this stuff.
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LocalH  





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax

PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, you might have seen this in my accomplishments thread, but if not. I figured out how to FC NTSC Trogdor. Also can answer the question about why there is a difference between full speed and slow.

First of all, the video.

First ever documented NTSC Trogdor FC

So, the game runs the core engine at a set speed (let's call this "music_speed"). It's based on a multiplier applied to 100% speed (so the game normally sets this to 1). The reason that practice mode speeds affects the strum limit, is because the game actually adjusts music_speed based on the practice speeds that are set for each song. The reason I was able to FC Trogdor was because I set music_speed equal to 2, but slowed the chart down to 50% speed. This essentially halves the minimum time between strums to 27.08ms, which is between 1 and 2 frames of duration (one frame in NTSC is 16 2/3 ms).

I discovered music_speed by looking at the development cheats they used. One of them (set to activate when they pressed Shift-P on a connected keyboard) calls a function entitled "cycle_music_speed". This function basically cycles between the values 1.0, 0.5, 0.25, 0.1 in the variable $speed, and then runs the following script:

Code:
{beatmatch set_music_speed $speed}


So I found a place in the scripting to place
Code:
{beatmatch set_music_speed 2}
and now basically the whole beatmatcher runs at double speed.

I think at this point, this is the best anyone will ever get (at least until I am someday able to disassemble GH2 and find out exactly where they set up the overstrum protection).
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LocalH  





Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And now the strum limit has properly been fixed. Watch this space.
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ThunderShade  





Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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yksi-kaksi-kolme  





Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2803
Location: philly skramzzzz

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh baby
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My Accomplishments - GH | RB || My Youtube Channel || My Customs
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Sixstringcal  





Joined: 17 May 2016
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/QDhq5Sbf34E
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AbyssionQC  





Joined: 29 Feb 2012
Posts: 656

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sixstringcal wrote:
https://youtu.be/QDhq5Sbf34E


The world is not ready to see the day, fortunately trogdor only comes in the night.
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Accomplishment thread - Road to FSFC

GH1 FC''s: 47/47 | GH2 FC''s: 64/64 | GH80''s FC''s: 30/30 | GH3 FC''s: 70/70 GHA FC''s: 41/41 | GHWT FC''s: 86/86
GHM FC''s: 49/49 | GHSH FC''s: 47/48 GH5 FC''s: 85/85 | GHVH FC''s: 47/47 | GHWoR FC''s: 91/93 | Total FC''s: 657/660

I totally didn''''t steal someone else''''s signature
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Sixstringcal  





Joined: 17 May 2016
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trogdor has been burninated

At 3:11 pm Mountain time, which is not in the night
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Voidedlefty  





Joined: 13 Sep 2016
Posts: 229

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sixstringcal wrote:
Trogdor has been burninated

At 3:11 pm Mountain time, which is not in the night

It's in the evening. Close enough!
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