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directshot999

Joined: 16 Oct 2007
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Location: Birmingham, AL

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

Eastwinn wrote:

This thread is not about drug legalization. Don't even bring it up.

I take a drug called citalopram. When taken once daily, it makes me a bit happier and reduces my risk of suicide. I also take a drug called lithium carbonate. Once daily, it has the same effects along with preventing me from falling of my rocker. This is "medical use" of a drug.

I have a friend who smokes weed at least once a day. She does it because she finds it fun. She's not addicted to the drug but chooses to use it daily as a hobby. This is "recreational use" of a drug.

Another friend of mine drinks alcohol every single day, most often towards the afternoon. He reports that without it he feels terrible. This is called "addiction." For the purposes of this thread, we will assume that he has no interest in the drug other than to curve withdrawal symptoms.

I suffer from chronic nausea. I drink ginger ale every morning to help keep symptoms down. However, occasionally I will use marijuana to divert the nausea while also enjoying its effects. This would be both medical and recreational.

Which of these usages are okay?

First usage is OK, because you are taking it for medical reasons. The rest isn't. Using the drug for "fun" won't be "fun" after long, it'll become an addiction. To me, "fun" is no different from saying "I need it", which is an addiction.

Chronic Nausea can be solved by other purposes, you don't have to use marijuana to solve it.
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:41 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

directshot999 wrote:

What if the particular drug is not addictive, or you use it so modestly that it's not possibly because of an addiction?

Also, what if marijuana works best? (This question is highly hypothetical.)
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OpenYourEyes

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:49 am Post subject:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.
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Eastwinn wrote:

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Pas26

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:53 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

directshot999 wrote:

To me, "fun" is no different from saying "I need it", which is an addiction.

That's stupid. I am then addicted to music, girls, good movies, guitar hero, funny videos, speeding (not often, sue me), making jokes...
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TheLonging

Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:59 am Post subject:

googleimage wrote:

TheLonging wrote:

googleimage wrote:

Actually, no I don't. I just don't think it's the "best" approach, either.

The best approach to someone dying of cancer isn't to make them play golf. The best approach to someone suicidal isn't a hobby.

I don't subscribe to the idea that you should just settle for the "easy answer" because the stakes are high and you don't want anything horrible to happen. I think you want to look for a solution that's sustainable, first and foremost. If you're creating a dependency on a drug, then you're not really treating the problem.

If the medicine has been scientifically proven to work, aka, antidepressants (it's not a generalization I'm trying to prove here, but rather a hypothetical situation), then why would you not take it? Even if the side effects are so minuscule/extremely unlikely to happen? Last I know vaccines don't cause autism.

GuitarHailz wrote:

And to counter TL, I don't think it's comparable to talk about the use of drugs to treat depression next to the use of drugs to treat physical pain, such as with cancer. I definitely support the use of drugs for either thing, though. I can say this having taken multiple anti-depressants in my life and while they worked temporarily, I never stayed happy long-term until I addressed the real problem. Which is what I imagine googleimage is trying to say, albeit a lot harsher.

Right, but do you think that your situation applies to everyone? I'm not trying to sound dickish, but sometimes antidepressants would succeed in the long term, sometimes it will succeed in the short term and you need to find another way to help, and sometimes it won't work at all. You won't know until you try, but I don't think a hobby would help someone who's in a bad state of mind and depressed/suicidal.

OpenYourEyes wrote:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.

This is my view on drugs. Just don't hurt anyone or do anything bad to anyone/anything else.
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PiemanLK

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:03 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

Pas26 wrote:

That's stupid. I am then addicted to music, girls, good movies, guitar hero, funny videos, speeding (not often, sue me), making jokes...

This post is historic because it marks the first time I agree with Pas.
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snowyporpoise

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:25 am Post subject:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.

I know a lot of people use this arguement, but remember that even though you dont physically hurt anyone with some drugs (ie, booze), you do have a family and friends that care about you and would be hurt to have you addicted to drugs. This is especially magnified if you have kids or a wife.

Point is addiction is one of the biggest evils in the world. Hard drugs (heroine, morphine) which have been chemically proven to be highly addictive should never be used recreationaly. Ones that dont i have no problem with usage as long as you are in control; a dependance on a substance, even if its just mental, is still dangerous.

On weed: if you can handle it, ie it doesnt interfere with your work/school, family, and friends, then i dont see why you couldnt use it. But if you cant go a day without lighting up then you should realize you are dependant on it for a good time, which is again not good.
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googleimage

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:00 am Post subject:

TheLonging wrote:

I think that's absolutely a valid reason to take the drug, but as you stated, that's a hypothetical, and I haven't seen too many concrete examples of a narcotic in which the psychological benefits were shown to last. You basically have to continue using it to continue receiving the benefit. I suppose on the surface that's better than nothing; but based on what I've seen, it's a band-aid solution at best, and counter-productive at worst.

Based on what I've seen, the way to work out of that "funk" is to seek out new things - or people - to add to your day-to-day or week-to-week routine that you can look forward to, to get you out of bed and bring you out of that rut (that's what I was going for with the hobby/project thing - more a strategy of finding ways to keep you occupied, and maybe finding a long-term goal professionally or recreationally to work towards). Relying on drugs tends to take a lot of those opportunities away from you.
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OpenYourEyes

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:20 am Post subject:

snowyporpoise wrote:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.

I know a lot of people use this argument, but remember that even though you don't physically hurt anyone with some drugs (ie, booze), you do have a family and friends that care about you and would be hurt to have you addicted to drugs. This is especially magnified if you have kids or a wife.

I don't like that argument because it is very subjective. What if you don't care about what your family thinks? What if your family is WAY too over-protective?

Granted, if you're addicted to heroine, your family has a legitimate reason to be worried, but you get my point. I believe that a person has the right to do whatever they want as long as they aren't harming anyone else. It's a little hard to argue, I know, but if you're doing something to yourself that somebody else doesn't like, they should just deal with it. Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
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blingdomepiece wrote:

Eastwinn wrote:

As a kid I wasted my time cheating in SimCity or the Sims, and now that I'm discovering how much fun it is to not cheat, I'm also discovering how stupidly hard it is

Set all the tax rates to 9.

PiemanLK

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:01 am Post subject:

googleimage wrote:

You basically have to continue using it to continue receiving the benefit.

You also have to keep breathing to continue being alive. Guess we should shitcan the idea of breathing then.

googleimage wrote:

Based on what I've seen, the way to work out of that "funk" is to seek out new things - or people - to add to your day-to-day or week-to-week routine that you can look forward to, to get you out of bed and bring you out of that rut

You say that from the perspective of someone who does not have anhedonia and severe depression that usually causes it. When all you want to do is sit in a chair all day and you really don't care if you go outside again, things are a little different.
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directshot999

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:31 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

Pas26 wrote:

directshot999 wrote:

To me, "fun" is no different from saying "I need it", which is an addiction.

That's stupid. I am then addicted to music, girls, good movies, guitar hero, funny videos, speeding (not often, sue me), making jokes...

I meant in terms of drug use. Music, girls, good movies, guitar hero, funny videos, speeding, and making jokes don't involve physical needs. Marijuana, of all drugs, is the best one to go for IMO because it's least addictive, and there really is no physical withdrawal possible except in extreme cases.

Eastwinn wrote:

What if the particular drug is not addictive, or you use it so modestly that it's not possibly because of an addiction?

Also, what if marijuana works best? (This question is highly hypothetical.)

See above; Marijuana, while I don't do it or necessarily agree with people who DO smoke it, is one of the least addictive drugs there is.

If marijuana works best, go for it... but I still don't think it's right. I've seen what drugs do to people firsthand, and the drug I blame is marijuana because it was the bridge to the stronger drugs that ruined their life.
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InflatablePie

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: Re: When is drug use okay?

directshot999 wrote:

I've seen what drugs do to people firsthand, and the drug I blame is marijuana because it was the bridge to the stronger drugs that ruined their life.

No offense to the people in question, honestly, but I wouldn't exactly place the blame on a single drug such as marijuana just because they got addicted to/used stronger drugs.
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PiemanLK wrote:

Eastwinn wrote:

Right, but if you had the chocolate bar in your heart all along, no one would need to work. Did consider that?

If you have a chocolate bar in your heart I suggest seeking medical attention.

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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.

I agree with this 100%.

I've seen a few people do some stupid things, like take 10 hits of acid at a rave, then start beating up people because he had a bad trip and think they're monsters... in which he got arrested and the party got shut down.

For the most part though, they do their own thing and its fine. I mean after all, alcohol is a drug too. One that I like very much... XD
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:11 pm Post subject:

TheLonging wrote:

GuitarHailz wrote:

I'm certain my situation doesn't apply to everyone - some people are truly only depressed due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, but from my experience and having multiple friends who have been depressed or are still depressed, more often than not drugs will help, but the catalyst is something greater than that and needs to be dealt with (ie a troubled home life, an abusive relationship, an unfulfilling career, etc).

Obviously everyone is different, but I agree with what googleimage is trying to say, which is that if a drug is literally the only thing you are holding on to, the problem is far greater than originally thought and should be dealt with accordingly with counseling and other options than just a pill. I certainly don't think drugs are the easy way out, but I stand by that they are not the ONLY way out. It's a mixture of things that just turns out to be different for everyone, but ultimately I just want those people to get healthy again and for the long-haul. How they do it is irrelevant, though I am adamant that from my own experience and friends having shared the experience that more often than not drugs alone aren't enough to fix it.

Edit: Well put, sukergod.

Also, Fhdra, that had to be one of the worst posts I've ever seen. I can't even reply. I don't.. I.. urgh.
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:12 pm Post subject:

OpenYourEyes wrote:

I've got a very simple view on drug use: if you want to use the drug, go for it. Don't harm anyone else in the process.

While I think this is the best view not only with drugs but everything else in life from religion, to hobbies to homosexuality, the question is, is this realistic?

I know for the most part, people who uses drugs as a recreation are best kind but in terms of crime its not unheard of to hear about how some crime to a family of murder, theft or battery is due in part to drug use. The fact is we all know that gut/ girl who gets loaded or high and wants to take on the world. Someone gets addicted to meth or yes even weed and they take away resources that could go to their family instead or worse, they take from someone else. This is not unheard off. Unfortunately for some percentage of people the drug's cause them to do harm to others in the process and will continue so. Whether it be stealing money from your grandmother to taking money from your sons college fund it happens.

More on topic, when someone is in the situation as the OP, a positive outlook is often just as important and the pills that one is taking. Taking medication for the sake of just getting better only does so much. If you do not try and understand why you are felling the way you are feeling then its hard to get better. For physical pain it is very different, but im not sure the OP is focusing on physical as opposed to his own emotional pain.
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