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I Pledge Allegiance...
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Barbaloot  





Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1583

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

damienblack wrote:
The legal definition of involuntary servitude isn't just any service or servitude which is involuntary, though. The labor is performed for the benefit of another specific person, and the US Government (and all political subdivisions therein) is excluded. Given the historical context in which the Amendment was passed, it seems to me that they were focusing specifically on legally freeing the slaves as soon as possible, and not so much worrying about clarifying the language when they knew in their minds what the Amendment was supposed to be addressing.


Notice that the government conveniently defines "involuntary servitude" as "involuntary servitude to someone other than us". This would be one of the "mind games" I referred to in my previous post.

If the government is allowed to redefine words as something other than their actual meaning in order to give itself more power, we might as well not have a Constitution to begin with. Congress decides that "Congress shall make no law..." means "Congress shall make no law...unless it has a compelling interest". The meaning of "...shall not be violated" essentially becomes "...shall not be violated...unless we feel like violating it". By twisting the words of the Constitution, politicians give themselves free reign to trample all over the rights of individuals.

This highlights the need to base the constitutionality of a law on the actual wording in the Constitution, not whatever meaning the politicians assign to those words. According to the actual words in the Constitution, the draft is unconstitutional since it is and will always be a form of involuntary servitude, regardless of what the politicians say.
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Carson611  





Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 267
Location: Parenting Classes

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

barbaloot what is your IQ . . . .SERIOUSLY

im actually agreeing with like everything your saying, its like if i was to say something, then you just make it 10 times better then say it yourself
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pyrobob  





Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 880
Location: In a tree in Katy, Tx.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not disrespectful at all to sit during the pledge. If you don't see the pledge as anything more as reciting a handful of lines (is guilty), then why bother standing? It's no one else's business why you decide to waste the energy of standing or not, and it's entirely up to you. If they claim it's one thing, they're just ignorant to your beliefs and want you to do things their way.


At my school, we had the pledge first period (when I think the most clearly), and EVERY teacher I had learned real quick not to tell me what to do when they have no legal obligation to do so, mostly because I pwnd them with logic and twisted their flawed line of thinking to the point of it almost breaking entirely.


All in all, I don't give a rats ass if someone wants to stand or not. Personally, I stay out of peoples business, and I like people to stay out of mine. I didn't stand for the pledge, and people who told me to got a real quick explanation as to why I didn't.


Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have any disrespect for anyone who wants to stand, nor for anyone who feels differently than I do (i.e. (ex)military personnel or family thereof), I just like doing things my way, and I'll be damned if someone will tell me to change it.
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Deak2112  





Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 2441
Location: On the wings of a dream, so far beyond reality

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson611 wrote:
Deak2112 wrote:
Carson611 wrote:
barbaloot how did you get so smart???


He actually cares about these subjects


and i dont??? why would i even open this thread if i didnt care what was in it??


Totally misinterpreted what I said. Most people just think about this shit here and there and will come here and give their 2 cents. Barbaloot actually cares about this kind of stuff therefore he has strong arguments
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0wnd1zzl3d  





Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 2116
Location: San Clemente, CA (Right between LA and San Diego)

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deak2112 wrote:
Carson611 wrote:
Deak2112 wrote:
Carson611 wrote:
barbaloot how did you get so smart???


He actually cares about these subjects


and i dont??? why would i even open this thread if i didnt care what was in it??


Totally misinterpreted what I said. Most people just think about this shit here and there and will come here and give their 2 cents. Barbaloot actually cares about this kind of stuff therefore he has strong arguments


...Oooooor, he uses common sense. It has less to do with intelligence, and more with using logic.
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JimmyPage22  





Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really touchy on this subject, but I usually stay seated, unless a teacher enforces it. Last week in my history class as we were supposed to get up, I stayed down simply to just get started on my work. Thats usually why I don't get up, or I just feel lazy. But, yeah, sometimes I do stand up.. depends how i'm feeling.

Also, I don't mean any disrespect or anything by not standing, I really am grateful for living in this country.


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tormentedbyu  





Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 3090
Location: Katy, TX

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pyrobob wrote:
It's not disrespectful at all to sit during the pledge. If you don't see the pledge as anything more as reciting a handful of lines (is guilty), then why bother standing? It's no one else's business why you decide to waste the energy of standing or not, and it's entirely up to you. If they claim it's one thing, they're just ignorant to your beliefs and want you to do things their way.


At my school, we had the pledge first period (when I think the most clearly), and EVERY teacher I had learned real quick not to tell me what to do when they have no legal obligation to do so, mostly because I pwnd them with logic and twisted their flawed line of thinking to the point of it almost breaking entirely.


All in all, I don't give a rats ass if someone wants to stand or not. Personally, I stay out of peoples business, and I like people to stay out of mine. I didn't stand for the pledge, and people who told me to got a real quick explanation as to why I didn't.


Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have any disrespect for anyone who wants to stand, nor for anyone who feels differently than I do (i.e. (ex)military personnel or family thereof), I just like doing things my way, and I'll be damned if someone will tell me to change it.


Pyrobob's tongue can be sharp. Really. lol

I feel sorry for said teachers.
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xBaDxHackeRx  





Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, who gives a rat's ass about saying a pledge to your country?

1. By living in your country, it is assumed that you respect the country and God.
2. Free will, my boys.
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Drevenant  





Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 562
Location: Foley, AL

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xBaDxHackeRx wrote:
1. By living in your country, it is assumed that you respect the country and God.


By living in this country, nothing is assumed. Like you said, free will. I have the right to not respect and/or believe in God, and I have the right not to believe in the future success of this country based on it's past and present corruption. This country or no one in it has the right to assume I'm anything.

That's the point of this country, right? To escape prejudice and have a right to be who I want to be?
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lazor  





Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 1079

PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimmyPage22 wrote:
I'm not really touchy on this subject, but I usually stay seated, unless a teacher enforces it. Last week in my history class as we were supposed to get up, I stayed down simply to just get started on my work. Thats usually why I don't get up, or I just feel lazy. But, yeah, sometimes I do stand up.. depends how i'm feeling.

Also, I don't mean any disrespect or anything by not standing, I really am grateful for living in this country.


Public School teachers cannot make you stand.
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cheeto865  





Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 137
Location: Longwood, FL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I have changed thoughts after this topic- I never really considered the free speech/religion/etc. ideas into this particular subject.

I still think that it's not TOO much to ask to stand up, but I definitely don't get as bitter when I see 10 people sitting down

On a somewhat related topic, it's always really freaking awesome when the whole student section at UCF yells "KNIGHT" when the word "night" is sung in the anthem. It just gives me chills every time.lol
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