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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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 Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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@ above:
To put it simply: Youtube thumbs up do not an argument make.
Here's some food for though: If the song "electric tears" was written and played by a robot (a little far-fetched, I know). Robots (of course), can not feel or express any emotion.
Does the song still posses any emotion? Answer: No, there never was any. It's physically impossible. Yes, you can write a song and feel emotion while you are doing so. You can pour your own emotion into a song. But to expect something tangible when listening to the song is simply impossible.
And to clarify, I didn't come into this thread saying Shawn Lane was better. I brought him up initially because Buckethead was absolutely a Shawn Lane disciple, and in all ways he was bucketheads #1 inspiration (could be wrong about this, but I know he's at least close). Can we just drop Shawn Lane now? It's apparent that what I said before was true, and none of you (bar toymachine) actually know who he is or the relevance of him to buckethead.
Edit: Something I forgot to mention: Whether a song emotionally moves you is irrelevant. Obviously music can emotionally move you. My point was that it's not something in the music that moves you, it's yourself, and how you hear the music. It's perception. And for the record, no Electric Tears did nor move me. I guess I have no soul.
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toymachine 
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9629
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny because Buckethead is usually the one being called unemotional- funny how things have changed xD
I will agree that Buckethead's shredding can get repetitive and he recycles riffs but it doesn't bother me because he puts different spins on it with his amazing effects and monstrous tone. Buckethead is heavily influenced by Funk (I mean he's buddy buddy with Bootsy Collins and is inspired by Parliament/Funkadelic) so it's not surprising you don't enjoy stuff like Population Override.
I haven't heard another guitarist that tries to duplicate Conlon Nanncarrow stuff though :P
I don't really find the song "Electric Tears" to be *THAT* emotional. For me something like "Watching The Boats With Dad" "I Love My Parents" or "Ghost Pt. 2" so mournful and somber.
While I'm here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqHQyQHu-RE what Buckethead does at 3:56 - 4:05 of this solo is one of the most emotional changes he's ever done in that solo.
It kind of makes me a bit misty eyed when I listen to it lol
| sean2490 wrote: |
Here's some food for though: If the song "electric tears" was written and played by a robot (a little far-fetched, I know).
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You mean Buckethead isn't an Alien Robot from the future?
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RichardGHP
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 2327
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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@ above:
To put it simply: A self-admitted far-fetched scenario involving robots does not make an argument. The point is, it wasn't written or played by robots. It was written and played by a human being with emotion. Your argument in that regard is almost invalid, although I can see where you are trying to come from.
If this were any other topic, I would agree with you. But because it's music, it is selective, subjective and opinions invariably differ from person to person.
| Quote: | | But to expect something tangible when listening to the song is simply impossible. |
Two things:
1. Why?
2. Says who?
| Quote: | | And none of you (bar toymachine) actually know who he is or the relevance of him to buckethead |
That's for a reason. Think about that.
| Quote: | | I brought him up initially because Buckethead was absolutely a Shawn Lane disciple, and in all ways he was bucketheads #1 inspiration (could be wrong about this, but I know he's at least close). |
Buckethead actually learned from Paul Gilbert, but decent enough point here.
| Quote: | | And for the record, no Electric Tears did nor move me. I guess I have no soul. |
So, if I'm interperating this correctly, you felt absolutely no emotion (bar possible boredom) when you listened to that song? Even for someone that doesn't rate Buckethead highly, that's bad. You're the first person I've seen that hasn't been moved, touched or otherwise emotionally influenced by that song, or any Buckethead song for that matter. |
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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| RichardGHP wrote: | @ above:
To put it simply: A self-admitted far-fetched scenario involving robots does not make an argument. The point is, it wasn't written or played by robots. It was written and played by a human being with emotion. Your argument in that regard is almost invalid, although I can see where you are trying to come from. |
Are you kidding me? It's a theoretical argument. I even said food for thought.
| RichardGHP wrote: |
| Quote: | | But to expect something tangible when listening to the song is simply impossible. |
Two things:
1. Why?
2. Says who?
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1. Because one person can not feel it there, while another can. Tangible: capable of being precisely identified or realized by the mind
Maybe that will make it more clear. There is no emotion in the song that your mind recognizes and feels. You provide it yourself (or not-- exactly my point)
2. Not really sure how to adress this one. Says me? Says physics? Best I can do for ya
| RichardGHP wrote: |
| Quote: | | And none of you (bar toymachine) actually know who he is or the relevance of him to buckethead |
That's for a reason. Think about that.
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Ignorance?
The fact that you would imply that at the same time as admitting you have no knowledge shawn lane is practically beyond belief.
Also I could do without the whole copying my post format thing. In case you were unaware, the only reason to do that is to come off as condescending (kind of like what I just did there).
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eyewin8
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 2790
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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@Richard: This is the post I was talking about
| RichardGHP wrote: | What's a Shawn Lane? I think I know somebody who lives down there!
Anyway, Buckethead overrated? I don't think so. He is respected very highly, and rightly so. His music is just so... moving, and furthermore, he writes so many different kinds of songs to the point where he's a great artist no matter how you look at it.
My thoughts on Buckethead: He's an artist that you always come back too. I myself prefer pre-2000s (with very few exceptions) music but Buckethead is so timeless I feel anyone can listen to him and enjoy it. |
I don't see how you can hold Buckethead with such high regard when you know less than 1% of his work. At least listen to a few albums before you go around calling him the greatest guitarist ever. It looks like all of your arguments are based off of Wikipedia facts (and it looks like you forgot to look up Lane for that bit). I also don't see how you can call out Sean for coming in this thread to say that Buckethead is over rated and that Lane is better. It's a forum, people use forums to argue. If someone started a Metallica thread you can bet your ass that I would be in there saying that Megadeth was so much better than they are.
@sean2490: Do you have any album recommendations of Shawn Lane? I feel like I should listen to some of his work if I'm going to argue about him :P
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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| eyewin8 wrote: | @Richard: This is the post I was talking about
I also don't see how you can call out Sean for coming in this thread to say that Buckethead is over rated and that Lane is better. It's a forum, people use forums to argue. If someone started a Metallica thread you can bet your ass that I would be in there saying that Megadeth was so much better than they are.
@sean2490: Do you have any album recommendations of Shawn Lane? I feel like I should listen to some of his work if I'm going to argue about him :P |
Well, I wasn't trying to say Lane is better when I came in here, but I guess that's kind of what it turned into.
For Lane stuff: I'm gonna send this in a pm, as I don't really want to derail the thread (anymore than I already have, at least)
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RichardGHP
Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 2327
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| eyewin8 wrote: | @Richard: This is the post I was talking about
| RichardGHP wrote: | What's a Shawn Lane? I think I know somebody who lives down there!
Anyway, Buckethead overrated? I don't think so. He is respected very highly, and rightly so. His music is just so... moving, and furthermore, he writes so many different kinds of songs to the point where he's a great artist no matter how you look at it.
My thoughts on Buckethead: He's an artist that you always come back too. I myself prefer pre-2000s (with very few exceptions) music but Buckethead is so timeless I feel anyone can listen to him and enjoy it. |
I don't see how you can hold Buckethead with such high regard when you know less than 1% of his work. At least listen to a few albums before you go around calling him the greatest guitarist ever. It looks like all of your arguments are based off of Wikipedia facts (and it looks like you forgot to look up Lane for that bit). I also don't see how you can call out Sean for coming in this thread to say that Buckethead is over rated and that Lane is better. It's a forum, people use forums to argue. If someone started a Metallica thread you can bet your ass that I would be in there saying that Megadeth was so much better than they are. |
But I didn't call him the greatest guitarist ever. I specifically stated that I didn't think he was the best guitarist ever. Besides, I don't recall using any factual information of note, much less Wikipedia facts.
I concur about people using forums to argue, it just seemed so weird to have a whole thread praising Buckethead and then someone else come in with a completely different opinion.
As for me holding Buckethead in high regard when I've only heard "less than 1%" of his work: That >1% is enough for me to decide. The few songs I've heard of his is sufficient cause for me to hold him in such high regard. |
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Fugitive 
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Posts: 3035
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| RichardGHP wrote: | | I concur about people using forums to argue, it just seemed so weird to have a whole thread praising Buckethead and then someone else come in with a completely different opinion. |
Differing opinions is what makes this interesting. If the only people who posted in this thread were the ones whose favorite guitarist is Buckethead, it would probably look something like
| Buckethead12121 wrote: | | Zomg best guitarist ever. I love JOrd4n!!!1!! |
| KFCBuckethead120857 wrote: | | J0rdan is teh winz. Buckethead is best guitarist evaaaaar |
| buckbuckethead wrote: | | u guys is s000 right. luv dis thred |
Okay... enough of that...
@Sean and Richard.
Robots don't feel emotion, obvious fact. Now a robot writes Electric Tears. What gives a song the emotion that a person feels can be anything form lyrics, to composition, to it's melodies to the tone of the instruments. Emotion is an experience, and, needless to say, people experience different things. That's why movies make some people cry and others not. People experience the music differently, and saying it's emotional is in the interpretation of the listener. Therefore it doesn't take emotion to write an emotional song as the fact that it's an emotional song is an attribute that's interpreted by the listener. |
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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| Fugitive wrote: |
@Sean and Richard.
Robots don't feel emotion, obvious fact. Now a robot writes Electric Tears. What gives a song the emotion that a person feels can be anything form lyrics, to composition, to it's melodies to the tone of the instruments. Emotion is an experience, and, needless to say, people experience different things. That's why movies make some people cry and others not. People experience the music differently, and saying it's emotional is in the interpretation of the listener. Therefore it doesn't take emotion to write an emotional song as the fact that it's an emotional song is an attribute that's interpreted by the listener. |
Woo! Points for comprehending what I was trying to say and bonus points for vocalizing it better than I could.
I mainly brought up the point in the first place to discourage the whole "this guitarist is better than this guitarist because he plays with more emotion" thing. It's a bad argument to make because it may only be true for the person who said it (and anyways, who's to say that one guitarist is playing with emotion and the other isn't? Maybe the guitarists themselves)
Anyways I've said pretty much all I wanted to say on buckethead. I don't mean any disrespect to buckethead or any of his fans, just getting my opinion out.
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machchunk
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 3829
Location: Pasco, WA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| sean2490 wrote: |
I mainly brought up the point in the first place to discourage the whole "this guitarist is better than this guitarist because he plays with more emotion" thing. It's a bad argument to make because it may only be true for the person who said it (and anyways, who's to say that one guitarist is playing with emotion and the other isn't? Maybe the guitarists themselves) |
Is this about my post because I didn't really say anything about emotion
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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| machchunk wrote: | | sean2490 wrote: |
I mainly brought up the point in the first place to discourage the whole "this guitarist is better than this guitarist because he plays with more emotion" thing. It's a bad argument to make because it may only be true for the person who said it (and anyways, who's to say that one guitarist is playing with emotion and the other isn't? Maybe the guitarists themselves) |
Is this about my post because I didn't really say anything about emotion |
Not at all. It was really just a general point.
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blackwidowcd
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 1717
Location: Bucketheadland
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| sean2490 wrote: | Ugh.
Buckethead must be one of the most overrated guitarists out there, maybe only second to satch.
I could go on forever with a list of shredders who's compositional skills outweigh bucketheads by far. I bet 80% of bucketheads fanbase hasn't even heard of Shawn Lane.
If there's one thing I can commend him for though, it's the sheer quantity of his stuff. Dunno how he writes so quickly, but in all honesty I couldn't care less. |
Omg! Another ignorant hater.  Most Buckethead fans have heard of Shawn Lane. Maybe it's because Shawn is on of B's greatest influences? They were going to record an album together. Shawn respected Buck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKA0gY328Q
Maybe you should listen to some of his songs before bashing him.
Dude, check this out: http://www.patmetheny.com/pat_recommends.cfm
To me, the main reason Buckethead is amazing isn't because of shredding or emotion. It's simply because he's a genious. He uses his shredding in brilliant ways (not just in solos) and has created unique music like Forensic Follies. There's also the avant garde masterpiece, Inbred Mountain. That album is so beautifully arranged. With all his music coming out, you might think he rushes it but every album has awesomeness. He pioneered 8 finger nubbing. Lane tried to copy Nancarrow by recording a bunch of separate notes but Buckethead invented a technique to nearly copy the player piano.
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sean2490
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1068
Location: Ottawa, Ontario Canada.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| blackwidowcd wrote: |
Omg! Another ignorant hater. |
This is ironic. Don't try to school me on Shawn Lane, or really anything else for that matter. I have listened to Buckethead's stuff, I'm not such an idiot to go around criticizing things without knowing anything about them. And I'm not about to change my opinion based on an artist I like, what do you think I am, 12?
The whole genius thing is also a moot point. There's absolutely no way that you can say (with any credibility) that buckethead is a genius.
And I wanna state this once again: This isn't a Shawn Lane vs. Buckethead contest. Forget I even mentioned it.
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machchunk
Joined: 28 Oct 2006
Posts: 3829
Location: Pasco, WA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't know if you noticed, but we discussed that post for 2 pages, and the discussion ended before you got here.
I'm starting to like The Elephant Man's Alarm Clock, but I need it to grow on me more. But yes, toymachine, this was pretty much what asked for. Thanks.
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toymachine
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9629
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| sean2490 wrote: |
The whole genius thing is also a moot point. There's absolutely no way that you can say (with any credibility) that buckethead is a genius.
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There are different types of genius and I think that his knowledge of music and theory is on the level of a musical genius (imo of course).
“He was a great student. He was really young. Actually, we were both really young. I think I was about eighteen. …He was about fifteen at the time. Of course if your fifteen, you can’t drive, so his Mom used to bring him down to the lessons. He was super fast even then and he wasn’t wearing a bucket. He was just a normal kid. I saw him in an airport a couple of years ago. He had super long hair so I didn’t recognize him at first. I just figured it was another musician who wants to say hello. As he got closer, I realized he was the kid I used to teach that turned into Buckethead. He was super cool. It was nice to see him.” - Paul Gilbert
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