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Sarg338  





Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FBMrider86 wrote:
Urisma wrote:
It would probably consist of using arrays, vectors, linked lists and the like, and how to code algorithms for sorting, fetching, matrix math, optimizations, binary search trees, and file formats. Possibly data compression too (That's all just a guess. I haven't taken the course).


Add to that stacks and queues. Data Structures is all about storage and manipulating of the structures. Linked lists are something I always sort of struggled with. In theory they aren't difficult, but adding and deleting nodes within a Linked list always took me a few tries before I got them right.


Damn, sounds like it's going to be hard. My teacher also said that he doesn't require a book (which can be a bad thing) because he has taught that course for the past 20+ years... no book will definitely suck.
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ajanata  





Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: South Bay Area, CA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarg338 wrote:
My teacher also said that he doesn't require a book (which can be a bad thing) because he has taught that course for the past 20+ years... no book will definitely suck.

Protip: "doesn't require a book" != "not allowed to get a book anyway".
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Bj0rn  





Joined: 31 Aug 2007
Posts: 522
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stumbled upon programming about 6 years ago when I decided to learn the Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind scripting language. Then I went a data/math program in high school. Now I'm studying my second year of engineering/computer science. I'm halfway through a course in algorithms, data structures and complexity, which has been really good. I've also had a class called "Programming Paradigms" in which we got to learn some of the major approaches of programming languages.

So thinking about it I've learnt a pretty big number of languages: Morrowind scripting language (it counts), Visual Basic (6.0), C++, Brainfuck (FTW), Java, Prolog, Haskell, C#, VHDL (a hardware description language) and an assembler language for Nios II. I'm most fluent with Visual C# (which I taught myself), C++ and Java.

My last year at high school I actually used DarkGDK when we had an assignment to make a game. Everybody else used Visual Basic, heh.

Nice to see a thread like this. And hi there, Bedlam!
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Last edited by Bj0rn on Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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FBMrider86  





Joined: 23 Jan 2007
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Location: Lawrenceburg, KY <- And I ain't havin' no fun

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use the internet to your advantage you don't need a book. We didn't have one for our Data Structures class either. You really don't need one for that type of class anyway since by that time you'll know basic syntax (I mean hell, you already do now). Eventually you hit a point where it's not the code that's holding you back, it's HOW to get the code to do what you want it to do.
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ajanata  





Joined: 07 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, but having a dead tree tome of algorithms (not specifically for any language, just to have as a reference) is always a good idea. Especially if you're getting on a plane for 5 hours for an algorithm-heavy job interview and need to review. Which I may or may not be doing tomorrow.
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Sarg338  





Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajanata wrote:
Especially if you're getting on a plane for 5 hours for an algorithm-heavy job interview and need to review. Which I may or may not be doing tomorrow.


Ha, good luck with that man. What kind of job position are you interviewing for, if you don't mind me asking.

EDIT: Is it also true that Java is usually... I don't want to say easier, but less complex than the C++ language? IF so, I might look into trying to learn some of it in these last few weeks of College and the summer.
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Bedlam  





Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 1444
Location: Gainesville, FL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bj0rn wrote:
I stumbled upon programming about 6 years ago when I decided to learn the Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind scripting language. Then I went a data/math program in high school. Now I'm studying my second year of engineering/computer science. I'm halfway through a course in algorithms, data structures and complexity, which has been really good. I've also had a class called "Programming Paradigms" in which we got to learn some of the major approaches of programming languages.

So thinking about it I've learnt a pretty big number of languages: Morrowind scripting language (it counts), Visual Basic (6.0), C++, Brainfuck (FTW), Java, Prolog, Haskell, C#, VHDL (a hardware description language) and an assembler language for Nios II. I'm most fluent with Visual C# (which I taught myself), C++ and Java.

My last year at high school I actually used DarkGDK when we had an assignment to make a game. Everybody else used Visual Basic, heh.

Nice to see a thread like this. And hi there, Bedlam!


Hello there Bj0rn I looked up that brainfuck language and I think I wanted to shoot myself. Also, it annoys me that so many people had programming classes in highschool... I never had that opportunity, and the shitty community college I went to didn't even have any programming courses...
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FBMrider86  





Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 1679
Location: Lawrenceburg, KY <- And I ain't havin' no fun

PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sarg338 wrote:
ajanata wrote:
Especially if you're getting on a plane for 5 hours for an algorithm-heavy job interview and need to review. Which I may or may not be doing tomorrow.


Ha, good luck with that man. What kind of job position are you interviewing for, if you don't mind me asking.

EDIT: Is it also true that Java is usually... I don't want to say easier, but less complex than the C++ language? IF so, I might look into trying to learn some of it in these last few weeks of College and the summer.


I'd say it's not as cryptic, and therefore easier to understand from the get go. It's definitely something you shouldn't ignore. Since Java is cross-platform no code conversion is needed to run your app on a different platform. Most people say Java sacrifices speed in order to do this and that C++ is faster, but I haven't done anything that intensive to answer myself. Java lets you get your program to a wider audience without extra effort. The API for it is extremely great and Sun has a done a great job of making things easy to find.
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OpenYourEyes  





Joined: 18 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been interested in learning to program for a while, but I can't afford classes, and I don't have the extra schedule space to learn in school. What would you guys recommend to me for learning at home?

For the record, I know so little that I could start from scratch and not be learning too much that I already know.
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GuitarGeek08  





Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3213

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive always found it fascinating and always wanted to take a high school course that does it w the TI 83, but never got the chance. Also considered going into it for a career at one point in my life, but it seems way too difficult to do.

Going to college in the fall and havent decided yet btw
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This is the first real, well thought-out explanation I've seen
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Urisma  





Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 220
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenYourEyes wrote:
I've been interested in learning to program for a while, but I can't afford classes, and I don't have the extra schedule space to learn in school. What would you guys recommend to me for learning at home?

For the record, I know so little that I could start from scratch and not be learning too much that I already know.


Well, first, you have to pick a language. Do you want a deep understanding of the computer? and doing lots of pretty cryptic things to get really fast applications? Do you just want to have fun? I'm hoping that you want to have fun, and I believe the most fun is Python. I'm currently learning it by making a runescape bot (how cool!).

There's no truly bad language to start with (besides assembly), so don't listen to someone who says you should learn java then c++ or vice versa. Find something you like and stick with it. The goal to being a successful programmer is havin fun. Think of what you like to do on the computer. Want to make flash games? Then javascript is probably good for you. Watch the shootorials on Kongregate. Want to make an emulator (that gets a vote from me ) then learn C++. Want it to be fairly easy to get into, being able to ease into the more difficult stuff as yu go along? Try Python.

So, Tl;Dr. think about what you want to do. Try out Python. Write programs that do things that you think are cool and fun. That is key. Try to make your programs fast and clever, utilizing different techniques to solve it. It will take some time, but eventually you'll be able to call your self a real programmer (oh, and you have to use Emacs.)

// Kidding about emacs. It's an xkcd comic.
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OpenYourEyes  





Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 4086
Location: I'm not sure. It's dark and I hear laughing.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Urisma wrote:
OpenYourEyes wrote:
I've been interested in learning to program for a while, but I can't afford classes, and I don't have the extra schedule space to learn in school. What would you guys recommend to me for learning at home?

For the record, I know so little that I could start from scratch and not be learning too much that I already know.


Well, first, you have to pick a language. Do you want a deep understanding of the computer? and doing lots of pretty cryptic things to get really fast applications? Do you just want to have fun? I'm hoping that you want to have fun, and I believe the most fun is Python. I'm currently learning it by making a runescape bot (how cool!).

There's no truly bad language to start with (besides assembly), so don't listen to someone who says you should learn java then c++ or vice versa. Find something you like and stick with it. The goal to being a successful programmer is havin fun. Think of what you like to do on the computer. Want to make flash games? Then javascript is probably good for you. Watch the shootorials on Kongregate. Want to make an emulator (that gets a vote from me ) then learn C++. Want it to be fairly easy to get into, being able to ease into the more difficult stuff as yu go along? Try Python.

So, Tl;Dr. think about what you want to do. Try out Python. Write programs that do things that you think are cool and fun. That is key. Try to make your programs fast and clever, utilizing different techniques to solve it. It will take some time, but eventually you'll be able to call your self a real programmer (oh, and you have to use Emacs.)

// Kidding about emacs. It's an xkcd comic.

Thank you. This was very insightful. And for the record, I would learn to prgram because I find it interesting. I already plan on becoming an English teacher, and I have several back up careers, so I'm not trying to get a job. It's simply to have fun.

Also, if I made a cool game, that would be nice too.
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Urisma  





Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 220
Location: The Woodlands, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm glad I helped. Python is definitely fun. I had a text based blackjack game almost completely done in a few hours with no prior experience in Python, just looking at some reference material (especially about syntax. Learning 4ish languages at once gets hard on the brain!). If you need any help or advice just post in the thread, I'll be sure to check back often.

And FBMrider: It is a lot of work. My very basic 6502 emulator took 1100 lines, and it was missing tons of features. But, it was fun, so I enjoyed it. Plus it won me twenty dollars at science fair!
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Sarg338  





Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bump.

Got done with my program for my finals.

our teacher gave us a .txt file of the Average temperature in Arkansas per month for 10 years. We are suppose to read the data and put it in a nice graph, as well with the average of the month over the twn year period. Here is the final result.



Had a little trouble at the end displaying the averages. Apparently, my Nested for loop was wrong. it was like this:

Code:
   for (int row = 0; row < ROW; row++)
   {

      for(int col = 0; col < COL; col++)
      {

      }

   }


when it was suppose to be

Code:
   for(int col = 0; col < COL; col++)
   {


      for(int row = 0; row < ROW; row++)
      {

      }
      

   }


The first one was taking the average of each year across all months instead of each month across all years. It took me about 40 minutes to finally get it right. Yay!
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Eastwinn  





Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 2853
Location: Anne Arundel County, Maryland

PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to chime in and say that learning from a book is superior than learning form the internet. By far. Books have a structure to the way they teach you things that you lose inherently in Google searches.

Oh, and OpenYourEyes, don't plan on making games just yet. Games are just about the hardest thing you can try to program. Simple games aren't bad, but the amount of extremely complex mathematics that go into a game like COD is unfathomable. If you really want to program games, you need to be knowledgeable of trigonometry first and foremost.
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