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LocalH
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:02 am Post subject: |
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I just thought of a possibility. The game may have been programmed as if it were running at 60Hz, when NTSC is, in reality, 60000/1001 Hz, or ≈59.94Hz. When taking the exact value (or at least as accurate as Windows 7 Calc) and dividing it into 60, it comes out as a multiplier of 1.001, and I'm wondering if that might assist in some way. That would also corroborate your finding that it may be playing a bit slower than the MIDI should indicate.
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tma 
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| LocalH wrote: | | I just thought of a possibility. The game may have been programmed as if it were running at 60Hz, when NTSC is, in reality, 60000/1001 Hz, or ≈59.94Hz. When taking the exact value (or at least as accurate as Windows 7 Calc) and dividing it into 60, it comes out as a multiplier of 1.001, and I'm wondering if that might assist in some way. That would also corroborate your finding that it may be playing a bit slower than the MIDI should indicate. |
That had crossed my mind, but the figures don't match up. It actually works out that PAL is running 1.001 times faster than NTSC, but my trial and error gets the actual runtime difference being somewhere around 1.003.
Through more testing I'm starting to think that the runtime difference might change from song to song too. The Trooper, which is a fast BPM song, seems to be a bit slower again than Jordan. Getting the exact values is tricky, I'm going to have to tweak it for every song.
On another note though, I discovered and fixed a bug in my hardware design that was stopping it from triggering orange and strum at the same time (which accounts for a number of missed notes in some of the playthroughs so far), and I've modified the code to do proper alt-strumming. I can also do down or up strums only, if I want.
Speaking of The Trooper, I've found that it seems you can get an extra tick somewhere. A number of times I've managed to get to measure 27 with 41601 points, which doesn't make any sense to me at all, especially given that all the sustains up to that point would be under a multiplier. Any ideas? |
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tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| I recall from somewhere that some versions of Guitar Hero did whacky things if you restarted the same song many times. Does anyone have any details? I'm wondering if it might explain some odd things I'm seeing. |
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alexhaz64 
Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 4480
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| tma wrote: | | I recall from somewhere that some versions of Guitar Hero did whacky things if you restarted the same song many times. Does anyone have any details? I'm wondering if it might explain some odd things I'm seeing. |
If you're talking about the hopo glitch, that only exists on ps2 and occurs when you restart after missing a hammer on, but only a certain percentage of time. I think you have to fret the wrong button for it to happen, or something along those lines. If you're talking about other wonky things, I've had it happen on my old copy of ps2 gh2, where songs would start lagging, skipping, etc. I think that's just cause it was an old game though, possibly scratched. If there's some other glitch, I don't really know about it. But I have had songs start skipping or lagging if I restarted too many times, again that's most likely due to age of the disc more than anything.
Speaking of your experience with the Trooper, you actually got a glitched tick. You can glitch ticks in the first 30 notes of the song if the note after a hold changes the multiplier- by hitting that note before the end of the sustain, you get a higher multiplier for the rest of the ticks in said sustain. The max I was able to get on the single hold of the Trooper was xx05. A better example of this phenomenon is the beginning of Rock this Town, which has two chord sustains that are glitchable. Normal ticks are 00, but the max possible I believe is 30. So there actually is a pretty big difference for executing this in certain songs.
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2:59 alexhaz64: I'm like 6th place on that song
2:59 alexhaz64: pretty neat
2:59 alexhaz64: :p
2:59 JohnnyGrey: No Alex, I don't care how good your score is
2:59 JohnnyGrey: DAMMIT
2:59 alexhaz64: XD
alexhaz64 flexes
2:59 psxfreak101: too slow on the trigger there, boyo
2:59 alexhaz64: that seems to be the case all night
2:59 JohnnyGrey: I've been too slow a few times tonight
2:59 JohnnyGrey: GDSAKj hfask
2:59 psxfreak101: XD
2:59 alexhaz64: LMAO
2:59 alexhaz64: OMG
psxfreak101 actua-loling |
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tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| alexhaz64 wrote: | | Speaking of your experience with the Trooper, you actually got a glitched tick. You can glitch ticks in the first 30 notes of the song if the note after a hold changes the multiplier- by hitting that note before the end of the sustain, you get a higher multiplier for the rest of the ticks in said sustain. The max I was able to get on the single hold of the Trooper was xx05. A better example of this phenomenon is the beginning of Rock this Town, which has two chord sustains that are glitchable. Normal ticks are 00, but the max possible I believe is 30. So there actually is a pretty big difference for executing this in certain songs. |
That's great info, thanks. And it points to my player being too early on the note hits, which is also very helpful information. |
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iDylan1357
Joined: 13 Jul 2012
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
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I have a couple Q's about Troggy.
First off, how does Swap Magic work? What do I want to order? Then, how do I get it to work on PAL format? Info on this would be great.
Second, how does the strumming compare to, like, KOC? I've tech. FC'd KOC, and I can strum faster than that. Are the similar? I've also FC'ed this Solo on Slow, it that helps.
I would love an FC and I want to mod my PS2 for Customs anyways.
Thanks |
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FL4RE
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 4178
Location: Liverpool yano
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Trogdor strumming is over 17 nps, whereas Knights of Cydonia is under 14 nps.
Also, Trogdor is on a MUCH more difficult engine for strumming, anything over 15 nps basically becomes stupidly difficult to hit. If you can only tech FC KoC, don't think about going for Trogdor until your strumming is a LOT better. Seriously...
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Pas26
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 3664
Location: Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Basically swap magik is a separate disk that you put in, select a few options (including "boot as PAL") and then you swap the disk with the one you want to play with. You need to fiddle a little with the console to be able to pull the disk out but I'm sure a quick youtube search would solve any problem you could encounter.
The problem is that it's still very luck oriented, even on PAL; you still need to be a robot for consistency.
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tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of robots, no I haven't given up on this project, I've just been ... sidetracked ... yeah ... <_<_>.
Actually, I hit a snag, and determined it was probably to do with the electronics rather than the software, dismantled most of the electronics and haven't got around to rebuilding it yet. It's still there though, and it's still in my mind to continue working on it. Maybe this weekend. |
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tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| tma wrote: | Speaking of robots, no I haven't given up on this project, I've just been ... sidetracked ... yeah ... <_<_>
Actually, I hit a snag, and determined it was probably to do with the electronics rather than the software, dismantled most of the electronics and haven't got around to rebuilding it yet. It's still there though, and it's still in my mind to continue working on it. Maybe this weekend. |
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eddaket 
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 2020
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| Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| iDylan1357 wrote: | I have a couple Q's about Troggy.
First off, how does Swap Magic work? What do I want to order? Then, how do I get it to work on PAL format? Info on this would be great.
Second, how does the strumming compare to, like, KOC? I've tech. FC'd KOC, and I can strum faster than that. Are the similar? I've also FC'ed this Solo on Slow, it that helps.
I would love an FC and I want to mod my PS2 for Customs anyways.
Thanks |
For an idea on how fast the strumming is, or rather how fast you need to strum to hit it, I always refer to this video. Preb has two runs in there at full speed and you can tell exactly where to start, end and how fast to go. The main trick to FCing it is to stay steady strumming. Don't speed up or slow down. If you have to speed up, you weren't going fast enough and you'll miss. If you have to slow down, well the strum limit has probably already made you miss. |
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FreeXBird
Joined: 24 Mar 2007
Posts: 2485
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| So, uhh... is anybody actually going for the FC? Or are we just waiting to see if the bot[s] can? |
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LocalH
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 1400
Location: MiloHax
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think people gave up on FCing NTSC Troggy long ago. If the bot proves it possible, however, it may start a sort of "renaissance" into the FC. That's why I'm eager to see tma's progress 
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yksi-kaksi-kolme
Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 2803
Location: philly skramzzzz
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Any progress tma? I really want to see this bot's results!!
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tma
Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 1414
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| yksi-kaksi-kolme wrote: | | Any progress tma? I really want to see this bot's results!! |
As it happens, after a hiatus from the project, just yesterday I picked up the soldering iron and got on the project again. Sorry about the delay, I just had some life happen and some other projects (ok ok, I was finishing off all the achievements in the Halo series before Halo 4 comes out  ).
Anyway, I won't make promises because I have a habit of going off and getting distracted, but it is back on my mind right now. |
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