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I'm Broken is FC-able! (nunovanhalen is the man)

 
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BobDole  





Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 2150
Location: Troy, New York

PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:05 am    Post subject: I'm Broken is FC-able! (nunovanhalen is the man) Reply with quote

UPDATE: nunovanhalen figured it out! Read his description to learn how this is possible but be warned: this discovery doesn't make the song easy. It's still incredibly difficult.

UPDATE: jordanpwnsme claims to have hit the broken note and I believe that he has based on a video he uploaded showing a note streak at the end of the solo which would be impossible to obtain without hitting said note. However, he has yet to divulge his method.

Actually it's most likely not, I just made that the topic title in hopes of attracting as many people as possible to look at this.

Anyway, the issue is that there is a broken note in I'm Broken that...nobody knows how to hit. This makes the song un-FCable until somebody finds out what is up with this note. I'm asking anybody with the game and the song to spend some time in practice mode trying to figure this out or better yet, extract the chart data from the game and see if you can get answers that way (I don't know how to do that, but I really want that to happen since I feel like it should reveal the solution).

Some background on broken notes: They are basically invisible notes in the charts. There are none of them on-disc, though the DLC songs This Love, Mouth for War, Cemetery Gates, 5 Minutes Alone, and I'm Broken are known to contain them. All of these broken notes have been discovered and documented by the amazing prebensoerensen in this topic. Notice what he says about the broken notes in I'm Broken (freticons recreated below because they don't copy paste and they're vital to understand what the problem is here):

Quote:
53. Iím Broken
Very hard solo with 2 broken notes that you have to hit twice (for the note you can do a hopo and then strum but for the you have to strum twice) and a stupid combo break that I can't figure out(written as |)

() | ()


This is the only broken note in the game that he wasn't able to figure out, so I'm guessing that's why he placed the song at the bottom of the breakdown (as in, he's calling it the hardest song in RR bar none).

Keep in mind that this solo is actually relatively fast and would be moderately difficult even with no broken notes. As such, if you want to help try to figure this out, I recommend playing it on half speed in practice mode (section is called "guitar solo") since it's much easier to deal with the notes and analyze what is happening in general. I myself have been playing this section for the past 20 minutes or so trying various things, none of which has worked.

As I mentioned before, if somebody can rip out the chart file somehow that would be really awesome...as these broken notes in RR are basically invisible extra notes that you have to hit, I feel that the raw file would probably reveal what you are actually expected to play there (which would obviously not just be since doing that breaks combo in between the two notes every time.

One last thing about this: When you do this section as perfectly as anybody knows how to (as in hitting both broken notes that preb found out how to hit and all non-broken notes) you get a -1, so there seems to be one invisible extra note. Also, the streak break occurs in between the two notes: when you hit the red, you still have your streak (which will be 51 upon hitting the red). The streak then breaks in the middle and resets at 1 when you hit the green. Here is a video showing this in action.

If anybody figures this out I will love you forever. I myself will continue to work on it until either I or somebody else cracks it. I firmly believe that this song is FCable, we just don't know how to do it yet.

EDIT: This may seem obvious but I needed to test it first...you CAN overstrum 100% broken notes. I tested this on the Mouth for War intro, the simplest/easiest broken note to handle in the game. Therefore I suggest vibrate strumming through the stupid part of I'm Broken as a possible method to determine what the invisible notes actually is. After that's determined we can then work on the timing required to actually combo through it. Actually you don't even need to vibrate strum...since you can practice it at 50%, just alt-strumming at the normal speed (which is not that fast of a strumming speed) is enough to break combo between every note at 50% while still maintaining your 100% notes hit.

EDIT2: Not having any luck with the double strumming or vibrate strumming (strumming 4 times for every note in the chart on 50%). Obviously it doesn't matter how fast you strum, you still lose your 100% in the same place. Note that because of the way Rock Revolution's practice mode works (it shows you a % based on how many notes you've hit out of what you've played up to where you are) you can actually see exactly when the combo breaks while you're overstrumming through by observing when the % falls below 100. I still leave the overstrumming method out there as a possible discovery technique, but it's given me no further insight as of now. I have to get up early tomorrow so I'm done working on this for tonight, but I'm far from giving up. The section has won the battle, but not the war.
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Last edited by BobDole on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:11 pm; edited 3 times in total
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jordanpwnsme  





Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 769
Location: USA, I'm on NTSC

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol at song title,


But seriously, I'll try to figure this out with you, I bought the dlc thinking it looked easy. I wasn't expecting broken notes though lol I guess I shoulda researched because now I want my points back and my 1.75 for the game
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Masquarr  





Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jordanpwnsme wrote:
...I want my points back...

Is this to imply that you're using the Xbox 360 version, using Microsoft points to buy the DLC? (You don't use points to buy stuff through PSN, you just use "normal" currencies.) I'm asking this because I own the 360 version. Prebensoerensen and BobDole each use the PS3 version, so I was hoping that possibly the broken notes would only be present in the PS3 version. If it turns out that the 360 note charts have broken notes, then I definitely won't buy any of the Pantera DLC for this game.
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DeftrockX3  





Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 2450

PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's most likely broken on 360 as well. Since it's Pantera, I assume the song would've been fcd in the 360 long ago had no broken notes been present in that version.

You're better off playing that song in WoR or RB3. There's no broken notes in either of those games on any system.
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Masquarr  





Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeftrockX3 wrote:
...You're better off playing that song in WoR or RB3. There's no broken notes in either of those games on any system.

Agreed. Actually, even in the unlikely event that the 360 version of the RR rendition has no broken notes, I'd still rather play that song in WoR or RB3. Rock Revolution has no support for vocal input, and all of its Pantera tracks are covers. In contrast, the RB3 and WoR versions of "I'm Broken" feature the original rendition of the song, performed by Pantera, and support vocals. Therefore, the RR version of it is obsolete, as far as I'm concerned.

The only Pantera songs in the RR DLC pack that interested me that much are "Cemetary Gates" and "This Love," because those songs cannot be played in any GH or RB game. But based on what jordanpwnsme and DeftrockX3 said, the 360 versions of them almost undoubtedly contain broken notes too, so I'll probably skip them. (I'm actually sort of interested in some of the Bemani tracks, though.)
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Davers  





Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 4613
Location: In a van down by the river

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the point of this thread has been missed. lol Obviously the GH and RB version are better, but the reason this thread was created was to simply point out that the song is un-FCable in RR and for those going for a FGFC were out of luck. However, it has been proven that it is FCable now and therefore a FGFC can be obtained whether the cover song is crappy or not.
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BobDole  





Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 2150
Location: Troy, New York

PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sucks is that the guy who proved the FC-ability of the song got banned (or so I heard) and he never responded to my messages to him on YouTube. So basically either he's left the community or he just doesn't want to tell anybody about his discovery. It's an unfortunate situation.

I'm considering going back to RR soon (haven't played it in months) both to try to finish off an on-disc FGFC and a few DLC FCs that I was close to and to try to figure out what this guy figured out about I'm Broken. Might do some bass work too; there are probably several un-documented broken notes on bass (when I started playing through the bass setlist long ago I found one in No One Like You, an on-disc song, for example).

EDIT:

From jpm's YouTube channel:

Quote:
Latest Activity:
May 27, 2010


Sigh...
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parzrevenge  





Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 399
Location: Las Vegas, NV

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobDole wrote:
Might do some bass work too; there are probably several un-documented broken notes on bass (when I started playing through the bass setlist long ago I found one in No One Like You, an on-disc song, for example).

does AML bass have broken notes? i remember i kept missing in like one spot for no reason :@
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nunovanhalen023  





Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

parzrevenge wrote:
BobDole wrote:
Might do some bass work too; there are probably several un-documented broken notes on bass (when I started playing through the bass setlist long ago I found one in No One Like You, an on-disc song, for example).

does AML bass have broken notes? i remember i kept missing in like one spot for no reason :@


Yes it does, lucky they're just a few extra strums that are easy to get. I'll make an fc video of it soon.
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nunovanhalen023  





Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the credit and the inspiration to figure this out in the first place! Also, I started an un-fc'd thread for Rock Revolution if anyone is interested.
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