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Slider notes in GH:M

 
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xLif  





Joined: 28 Jul 2016
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:29 am    Post subject: Slider notes in GH:M Reply with quote

been messing around in GH:M a bit and noticed that in the solo for Hit the Lights i can barely combo the slow GRYRG zigs at the beginning but FC the rest. Do you need to be MORE accurate on tap notes in this game? I can also barely combo the tap notes bit in solo B of battery, its really frustrating...
i can do this stuff in the WoR engine no problem too lol
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Bradmasta  





Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2276
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sliders from WT (especially WT) up through GH5 are very temperamental. Being accurate as possible is definitely a must, as well as not ghosting. Ghosting is essentially where you fret notes in a descending or ascending section that aren't there. For example, if a section is supposed to go and you fret , you're ghosting, and will cause you to miss with sliders.
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2-17-2018: Date I FC''d One and FGFC''d GH3 on Expert
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UndeadFil13QC  





Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 3386
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bradmasta wrote:
The sliders from WT (especially WT) up through GH5 are very temperamental. Being accurate as possible is definitely a must, as well as not ghosting. Ghosting is essentially where you fret notes in a descending or ascending section that aren't there. For example, if a section is supposed to go and you fret , you're ghosting, and will cause you to miss with sliders.


This is actually not true. What makes you miss in slider sections is when you hit a note before you are supposed to, in a way that makes you skip another note. The timing window is the exact same as the regular HOPOs', at least from GHM and on. (In fact GHWT had a terrible HOPO window in general, which made the sliders a lot more difficult and were deemed broken by most people)

A typical example would be doing descending triplets as if it was a zigzag, , and it would skip the second blue note because you are hitting the second yellow first.

Another bullshit thing happens when you try to hit very fast zigzags, and a couple similar patterns, without anchoring. The following happens in a fraction of a second. You hit the top note, then pull off to the middle note, then you press the bottom note button before releasing the middle button, which triggers the second middle note and skips the bottom note. That's right, pressing and releasing lower frets triggers notes of the currently held fret that are within the timing window. Kinda hard to explain, but let's just say that if you're going to hit slider zigzags, you're better off anchoring everything in advance, or just sliding one finger from the bottom to the middle note fret, to avoid this note-skipping phenomenon. When you slide from a fret to another, you typically are releasing a fret before pressing the other, so nothing bad can happen.

That being said, you are allowed to ghost in Bradmasta's particular scenario (you could try it on Prisoner of Society on GHWT) but not in cases like Hit The Lights where you have repeated notes that could potentially make you skip other notes. As an example to really see what is going on you could just try to spam only the red fret during that GRY zigzag and see the bottom and top notes disappear before they pass the strike line.
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Naruto42  





Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1289

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, basically what Undead said.

For your case, GRYRG zigs:
- First you have to make sure you never press chords (see Undead answer)
- Second, you have to hit them early, especially the R notes.
Because if you press R a little late, late enough so it is in both of the R's timing windows, the game might register the later one, from what I understand of sliders.

Here's a little drawing, with GRYRG notes and their timing window.
The red part is where timing windows overlap.
|-G-||-G-|
..|-R-|
......|-R-|
....|-Y-|

Or this one, if you prefer reds on the same line:
|-G-||-G-|
..|-R||R-|
....|-Y-|

There are 3 ways that the game can handle this, one of them being implemented in the actual engine:
1. Game always registers the earlier one
2. Game registers the one it is the closest to (aka closest to the center of the timing window)
3. Game always registers the latest one

I would put my bet on 2nd or 3rd option, although 1st option isn't proven wrong I think. Anyway, for 2. and 3, the game might register the wrong note if you are in the red zone, so playing early avoids the dilemma for the engine.
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GingerBraFace  





Joined: 27 Mar 2016
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Location: Santraginus V

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tap notes are absolute arses. I had no idea they were this temperamental.

I'm slightly confused though. Is anchoring a good, or bad idea?
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Naruto42  





Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1289

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GingerBraFace wrote:
Tap notes are absolute arses. I had no idea they were this temperamental.


I could explain how it has been implemented with the right idea in mind, but poor understanding of timing window overlaps, but it would get complicated.

GingerBraFace wrote:
I'm slightly confused though. Is anchoring a good, or bad idea?


If you are comfortable both ways, then do anchor, but the difference might be tiny.

Advices:
Play early (important, gets even more important with NPS increase, because more NPS means more timing window overlaps)
Don't ghost (depends)
Anchor (not very important, except if you sometimes hit chords when not anchoring)

The slider problem: if you fret while in the timing window of a slider note for this fret, it will hit it, and skip all previous notes.

Playing early solves all problems really, because if you fret early enough so you aren't the the actual note's timing window, it won't register and skip others.

Not ghosting is really case-to-case. You can ghost as many notes as you want, as long as you don't do it in the timing window of an actual note eg, for a pattern, you can ghost 1000 Y and it will work.
But if there is a and you press R while it is in the actual R note's timing window, it will skip Y.
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Bradmasta  





Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 2276
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91544&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


fifth post in the above link.


This thread essentially shows that yes, there WAS something broken with the WT slider notes, and they were "fixed" in GHM. I use fixed lightly because there's definitely an issue, which I believe was addressed in the slider notes explained thread here: http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111029

I do apologize in what I said earlier though. My initial comment on ghosting was definitely off, as I do recall a few sections that I need to ghost in order to hit in GHM and have done so without much issue.
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12-10-2010: Date I started dating my Fiancee /5-11-2012: Date I became the 188th Freebird /3-10-2015: Date I FC''d Revolution Deathsquad /2-16-2017: Date I FC''d Through The Fire And Flames /
2-17-2018: Date I FC''d One and FGFC''d GH3 on Expert
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Naruto42  





Joined: 13 Dec 2008
Posts: 1289

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bradmasta wrote:
This thread essentially shows that yes, there WAS something broken with the WT slider notes, and they were "fixed" in GHM. I use fixed lightly because there's definitely an issue


Really interesting to have a confirmation from Neversoft that GH:WT is different from the others! Even though I didn't really feel it (or maybe on trills... god how is Satch Boogie even possible) But it is quite vague unfortunalely

Bradmasta wrote:
which I believe was addressed in the slider notes explained thread here: http://www.scorehero.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111029


My guide is already a reference? <3 <3 <3 XD
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