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SmugDuckling  
 




Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 575

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: So how is it? Reply with quote

I'm trying to decide if and/or when I should buy this game.

I have not heard good things so far, though I haven't been able to watch the streams or videos yet (need to be on my home computer).

Anybody like it?

I'd like to hear some opinions and initial impressions.
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JRyder  
 




Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 1274

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't get a chance to play through the career much, but here's some general thoughts:

1) It's been said before, but yes, the top-down method of showing notes is very troublesome. Also, the notes are tiny and if you thought that it was hard to tell what a HO/PO note was in Rock Band, just wait until you play Rock Revolution. Also, the notes fade in very quickly, leaving you little time to react. I unfortunately didn't get a chance to play very many hard songs, but it seems that that might be an issue for some players, though it might act as hyperspeed for others. Too early for me to tell.

2) The whole Atmosphere/Power Meter thing takes some getting used to, but is a neat feature and since the emphasis on getting higher scores is hitting the notes perfectly instead of having a good Star Power path, this allows for a much more competitive scene without having to memorize paths that can throw you off--if you want a higher score, just don't abuse the timing window.

3) Speaking of the timing window, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of window to abuse in this game. Unfortunately, again, it's hard to tell as I have had trouble playing RB2 to a certain extent on the friend's television I played on, but it really seems like in chordfests, you are more likely to get three or four stars than in songs where you are going all over the place. Even if you feel like you're keeping a good rhythm, it's not giving it to you, and that's incredibly frustrating.

4) From what I saw of career mode, it seemed like they were throwing some interesting ideas in there. Aside from the usual "play this song on a difficulty" business, there was also (in the first "album") a poison note challenge and a "crank it up" challenge. Crank It Up allowed you to choose your difficulty from Medium, Hard, or Expert, and the song would start two difficulty levels down and then work its way up through the song in different intervals. It was hard to tell if they were equal intervals or not. Ideas like this though are very fun for people new to rhythm games, although people who choose Expert for this challenge and expect it to go Expert-SuperExpert-MegaExpert are sadly mistaken. It'd be nice to give Expert players a little challenge somehow in this, but I didn't get a chance to see the other special challenges, so maybe there's something in the later ones. Nevertheless, this is a very neat addition to the game and certainly makes it stand out from the rest.

5) The gameplay mechanics are a mixed bag. On one hand, things like shred notes (which are a lot like the drum rolls in GHWT) and improv sections (which I have yet to run into but saw on Toymachine's stream) are neat ideas that can potentially break up the monotony of playing these 40 songs over and over again. However, the idea that multiplier can only increase with "perfect"s really grinds my gears. As previously mentioned, this rears its ugly head in chordfests as you struggle to figure out what rhythm you need to be hitting the notes at to get them to register as perfect.

Furthermore, a little bit more help in determining what was a perfect and what was a good would be nice. I was able to pick up on it somewhat quickly, but this and the fact that you don't get an on-screen message when your Power Meter is full makes me a little peeved. I know there's been a revolution lately against things like on-screen messages, especially in Guitar Hero, but trust me when I say it would be very necessary here and would save a lot of trouble.

6) Everything outside of the main menu and the career mode LOOKS cheap. I know it's just an aesthetic thing, but when you get past the main menu and suddenly everything looks like an XBox Live Arcade game, you wonder where all your $50 went to.

7) Because it certainly didn't go to securing masters for this game. Yes, all 40 tracks are covers, and yes, some of them are awful (Chop Suey!, Somebody Told Me to name a couple). Some of them are surprisingly not awful but still not good (The End of Heartache and Dance, Dance come to mind), and a choice few are actually close to the source material (most of the female-vocal songs). So yes, if covers bother you, avoid this game at all costs, this game will not change your mind about covers in rhythm games if you already despise them. As always, of course, the instrumental part of the covers are fantastic, but it's all about the vocals.

8) There's not a lot of polish in this game, but it is exchanged in favor of moving quickly. I noticed load times were in-between Guitar Hero III and Rock Band 1/2, not too fast, not too slow. At the end of songs, you don't get the fretboards exploding or being beamed up into the stage, you just get a cut to your band celebrating after the performance. It's a streamlined experience designed to get you from gameplay to results while showing off as much of their graphic design as possible. And no, the graphics aren't good, but this isn't as much of a focus as the gameplay is anyway.

9) Didn't get to play around with the recording studio or anything much, but it did seem like there could be some neat stuff created in it from people who are patient enough. We've seen what people can do in freestyle mode in RB2, and this is a good preview of just a microcosm of what we can probably expect in GH:WT.

So, in summary:

Pros:
-- Detailed stats screen telling you everything short of your percentage by section
-- Some of the songs are actually pretty fun to play, and some songs that have been wanted in GH/RB for quite some time are added here.
-- The Power Meter is a nice change of pace from stressing over Star Power/Overdrive paths, and will allow you to be less likely to kill your bandmates
-- Career mode seems to be wanting to go in a different direction than its competitors while not completely revamping, and to a certain extent, abandoning the idea like Rock Band 2 did.
-- Music studio/Jam sessions are pretty neat
-- New gameplay mechanics like shred boxes and improv sections distinguish Rock Revolution to a certain extent

Cons:
-- Timing window issues make increasing your multiplier a frustrating process
-- Some of the covers are dreadful
-- Too many songs are copied over from past/future GH-RB installments.
-- Graphics are nothing to fawn over
-- Menus look cheap and very Flash game-ish
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Prong1978  
 




Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 2257
Location: Flint, Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graphics wise it is better than Guitar Hero, but not as good as Rock Band. The character models look pretty good, but the character movements don't (the drummer is better than in GH though).

The covers are NOT as bad as people say. Having said that, there are some that are pretty bad (Blitzkrieg Bop and Are You Gonna Be My Girl) as well as some that are just fine (All My Life, No One Like You). Even when the covers are bad, it's only the vocals that are bad. The instruments sound fine to me. The range of cover qualities ranges from bad to OK to good just like GH1, GH2 and GH80s. They're only really bad when you compare them to the golden standards of RB2 and GH:WT with their 80+ master recordings.

The flat straight down highway definitely takes some getting used to. The GH/RB style is much better at this point since I've been playing it for a year and a half. I've found that quick HO/POs are harder for me to play in Rock Revolution. I don't think it's the timing window or engine that's the problem. I think it's the visual perspective. I definitely missed things I think I would've in GH/RB.

The difficulty seems easier than GH and RB. The charts seem easier, and the engine is far more forgiving for missed notes than either game from what I can tell. I DON'T recommend this game for elite players who want harder charts. Having said that, I wouldn't say the game is flat out easy. I'm just saying that Holy Wars on Expert is easier than TTFaF on Hard.

I can only recommend this game for the kind of people that want to play EVERYTHING. You know, the kind of person who bought Red Tandy and Cherry Bomb as DLC for RB. Speaking of DLC, I'm a DLC Whore for RB/GH, but probably won't buy any for Rock Revolution unless it's a song that I really really really want to play and isn't available in GH/RB.

For me it's:

RB2>GHII (360)>RB1>GHIII>RR>GH80s>GH1

It's worth noting for this ranking that I learned to play GH on the 360, and loathe playing on the PS2 (I have trouble with the SG and the graphics hurt my eyes...literally)
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Whitt333  
 




Joined: 03 Dec 2007
Posts: 1532
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for these reviews. It's definatley helping to know more about this before I go get it.
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JRyder  
 




Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 1274

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prong1978 wrote:
RB2>GHII (360)>RB1>GHIII>RR>GH80s>GH1


I agree with the Rock Revolution part of this equation, in that it's just a little better than GH80s. The production values just aren't there, so if you were one of the people who didn't think GH80s was a good value, there's probably not much here to change your mind.

We shall see what they come up with for DLC, but I am not holding my breath.
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gohoog  
 




Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I'll just rent this then
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notBowen  
 




Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 275

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much more fun on drums than guitar... once the mindfuck of the layout wears off (doesn't take that long).
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deepbluevibes  
 




Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 1832

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE FOLLOWING IS MY OPINION: YOU MAY NOT AGREE.

JRyder wrote:
1) It's been said before, but yes, the top-down method of showing notes is very troublesome.


Personally, I feel the top down method is extremely superior to the HMX "incoming chart" UI, for a few simple reasons:

-Flat, 2D, top down interface means notes CANNOT visually overlap, as they can on the incoming fretboard, meaning you can read notes visually MUCH easier on songs with compressed floods of notes.

-Seperate column for bass = bass drum notes aren't covered up by seas of notes during harder songs, easy to see.

-Much easier to visually gauge where note needs to be hit at the bottom of the screen as a 2D, top down interface's notes will line up perfectly in their "shells" at the bottom of the screen, pixel by pixel.

JRyder wrote:
3) Speaking of the timing window, it seemed like there wasn't a lot of window to abuse in this game.


Thank god, finally, a decent, tight timing window instead of a window you can drive a truck through aka Rock Band/Guitar Hero's timing windows. Sorry if this whole post comes off as sort of bitter, clearly you all know I love RB, but the timing window is just disturbingly huge in those games.

I mean seriously, I completed RB1's Career Mode for Expert Drums with one stick because of how badly the timing window can be abused in those games, because you can hit double notes with two seperate strokes quite easily, and that just shouldn't be happening.

JRyder wrote:
However, the idea that multiplier can only increase with "perfect"s really grinds my gears.


Wow, are you serious? I was at first really bitter when they added in the multiplier system into RR (again in my opinion, the multiplier system rewards stability in combo, but I far prefer accuracy in timing over keeping a perfect combo), but this is awesome, and makes the multiplier system acceptable.

Nice to know they kept the Perfect/Great/etc. ratings in there, they're what seperate a decent score from a great score and so forth: they also effectively nullify ties on all but the easiest songs.

JRyder wrote:
Everything outside of the main menu and the career mode LOOKS cheap. I know it's just an aesthetic thing, but when you get past the main menu and suddenly everything looks like an XBox Live Arcade game, you wonder where all your $50 went to.


I've become a bit more "into" graphics on rhythm games since being absorbed into the Rock Band series, but honestly, a game could look like it came from the Atari to me, as long as it had solid gameplay, solid songs, and solid challenge.

JRyder wrote:
Because it certainly didn't go to securing masters for this game. Yes, all 40 tracks are covers


Considering i'd never heard 95% of the on-disc songs on Rock Band 1 before, and 90% of the DLC that's been released, and that i've been used to playing rhythm games in a language I don't even understand for the past 8 years, covers don't bother me in the slightest, but I understand that's an extremely rare combo.

I'll definitely be picking this up with the drumset come November.
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wuLFe  
 




Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 2679
Location: Richmond, IN

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started the drum career last night (didn't get much time to play, since I had a meeting with my local gay activist group, had to leave the TV to let Richard watch the debate, and then had to make a chili for a potluck at work today, so I only got on at about 11:00PM, so this isn't a firm review yet, and it's only for the drums, using the RB2 set).

Firstly - it's easy
Even the most tricky songs (Pull Me Under/Holy Wars) are probably akin to 6th tier RB2 songs.

Secondly, the bass pedal been its own icon is a little confusing at first - I still think it's probably inferior to the Rock Band model, but I did get used to it for the most part.

Thirdly, the "challenges" in career mode are lame - especially the poison note challenge - it's just lame!

Finally, I hate, hate, HATE the way that you have to activate their starpower equivalent - I can be FCing a song, but the activation makes no sense - you either have to do it in between beats, or during long pauses, but even there, it seems to make me break combo - very annoying - VERY ANNOYING.

I agree with the covers criticism - instrumentally, they're all spot on, but some of the vocals leave a lot to be desired - I was particularly appalled by the slow section in "Fallling Away From Me", and some of the bad Mustaine impersonations in "Holy Wars"

On the whole, I don't think it was a bad purchase - I'll certainly have some fun with it, and it makes a nice change from GH/RB - I'll post my thoughts on the guitar section when I have a chance to play some of it (probably only over the weekend).

I'm not going to comment on interface/graphics/etc because that stuff means nothing to me in this genre - if I want eye-candy, I'll play Fallout 3 (which, incidentally, is FUCKING AWESOME)
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evilpeer  
 




Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it sounds like konami applied a lot of Dance Dance Revolution gaming ideas (home versions not arcade) to guitar hero. sounds like konami messed up another good rhythm game lol
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deepbluevibes  
 




Joined: 11 Oct 2006
Posts: 1832

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

evilpeer wrote:
it sounds like konami applied a lot of Dance Dance Revolution gaming ideas (home versions not arcade) to guitar hero. sounds like konami messed up another good rhythm game lol


No, they applied guitar hero stuff to drummania/guitar freaks, which is kind of retarded on their part, seeing as:

rock band = copy of guitar freaks + drummania + karaoke revolution
guitar hero = copy of guitar freaks

so...
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toymachine  
 




Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 9627
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuLFe wrote:
I started the drum career last night


needz moar Wulfe79 Rock Revolution Guitar #1
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rastabot1  
 




Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 209
Location: Bird City, Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wuLFe wrote:
Finally, I hate, hate, HATE the way that you have to activate their starpower equivalent - I can be FCing a song, but the activation makes no sense - you either have to do it in between beats, or during long pauses, but even there, it seems to make me break combo - very annoying - VERY ANNOYING.

You can activate the drum star power on a green/bass note if you hit the red pad along with it, and this does not break your combo. Similarly if there's just a single red note and you hit the green/bass with it the star power will activate and your combo wont break.
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JRyder  
 




Joined: 25 Mar 2006
Posts: 1274

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something new I noticed today when I went to do the achievement for getting 100% on an expert song at 50% speed. I'm not sure where they get the numbers from, but when you go to practice something after playing it, they show you a breakdown by percentage of the sections, and the one you did the worst on gets a recommended button at the top of the section list. This is a very neat feature, that's all I can really say about it, I can't believe this game did something cool like this.
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dragonforce11  
 




Joined: 17 Dec 2007
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, since there are all mixed reviews...

Is this game worth $50 or not? because i cant rent it because retarted Blockbuster says that there not even gonna carry the game So, is it worth $50, or not?
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