Going from GH drums to real drums? Does it help?

[adam12343210]

[adam12343210]

[gufino]

Well, I agree with things I read on this thread, but not 100%.

I've been playing drums in a band for some years (by the way, it's a sort of half metal,half punk hardcore band, if someone is interested I can link some vids). Well, I'm obviously no Neal Peart, but what I can say is that there's a really big difference between being able to play some patterns on a real set, and being a drummer...

Playing GHWT (never tried RB so I won't talk about it) sure can help you develop some limbs indipendence, body coordination, and so on... You could probably be able to play some nice patterns and fills on a real set, even if it is spatially different from a GH drumkit. But this WON'T make you a drummer. There's some other very important things you can't learn from a game, ie. a solid understanding of the musical concepts of tempo, and the simple but important maths behind it. Then you will start UNDERSTANDING what you're playing, and you could start creating your own style and feel. To create your own style, you have to experiment a lot with your kit, the different sounds you can get from it, and the best way to put this sounds together.
Plus, there's some technique issues: you CAN beat expert level using some really wrong drumming techniques, but trust me, this can work in a game but sure will give you problems on a real set.
So, you can START enjoying a real set with the basis provided by this game, but being a real drummer is a really different thing, that needs patience and study. Not necessarily a teacher and lessons, but you surely need to find some good material and study it hard.

[gufino]

Well, I agree with things I read on this thread, but not 100%.

I've been playing drums in a band for some years (by the way, it's a sort of half metal,half punk hardcore band, if someone is interested I can link some vids). Well, I'm obviously no Neal Peart, but what I can say is that there's a really big difference between being able to play some patterns on a real set, and being a drummer...

Playing GHWT (never tried RB so I won't talk about it) sure can help you develop some limbs indipendence, body coordination, and so on... You could probably be able to play some nice patterns and fills on a real set, even if it is spatially different from a GH drumkit. But this WON'T make you a drummer. There's some other very important things you can't learn from a game, ie. a solid understanding of the musical concepts of tempo, and the simple but important maths behind it. Then you will start UNDERSTANDING what you're playing, and you could start creating your own style and feel. To create your own style, you have to experiment a lot with your kit, the different sounds you can get from it, and the best way to put this sounds together.
Plus, there's some technique issues: you CAN beat expert level using some really wrong drumming techniques, but trust me, this can work in a game but sure will give you problems on a real set.
So, you can START enjoying a real set with the basis provided by this game, but being a real drummer is a really different thing, that needs patience and study. Not necessarily a teacher and lessons, but you surely need to find some good material and study it hard.

[hydropunk]

[hydropunk]

[adam12343210]

[adam12343210]

[ABee1010]

[ABee1010]

[ArmourTheLlama]

This is turning into GH vs RB drums, much as people say they aren't trying to start that argument.
Also, this thread was started last year. The OP has probably gotten the information he wanted.
_________________

Master-tesuch is a legend

[ArmourTheLlama]

This is turning into GH vs RB drums, much as people say they aren't trying to start that argument.
Also, this thread was started last year. The OP has probably gotten the information he wanted.
_________________

Master-tesuch is a legend

[adam12343210]

I personally am not trying to take a side of a game (though I did defend rb pretty heavily on the last post) because i believe they both add different spices to the video game formula.

To Abee,

My point is that neither game will make you an awesome drummer. To do that you must actually play a real drum set and learn what you're playing. WT could have perfect charting for all I care, but you still wouldn't know what you're playing in musical terms (which in the real world of drumming are the ONLY terms used).

Ex. you could have a great amount of knowledge of NPS for say, but if you become a real drummer based on only playing songs (without knowing the actual musicality of it), you could barely call yourself a drummer. If you can't read music, know what different note divisions are, understand the bpm of the song and how that affects note divisions, factor in time signatures to see how note divisions work for the song, understand the notation the writer used for the song, etc. (the list goes on and on), then you will be extremely limited as a drummer. The only musical terms you learn about from rock bands are different types of stickings (and if you're really interested in stickings, then rudiments), but even that isn't truly learned in-game.

Whether you think my argument is convincing or not, it's true. Charting and how the drums are set up make an extremely small difference as neither game will make you a real drummer until you buy a set and metronome, get you hands on a basic drum techniques book, and actually apply yourself to learning the MUSIC. So while WT and RB are fun games to play that might build your chops and expose you to other types of songs than you might be used to, it will not make you a drummer.
_________________

I don't play rhythm games so much anymore, but it's a fun break from playing with my band for sure.

Check out my band: http://www.youtube.com/user/EverydayGrindMusic

[adam12343210]

I personally am not trying to take a side of a game (though I did defend rb pretty heavily on the last post) because i believe they both add different spices to the video game formula.

To Abee,

My point is that neither game will make you an awesome drummer. To do that you must actually play a real drum set and learn what you're playing. WT could have perfect charting for all I care, but you still wouldn't know what you're playing in musical terms (which in the real world of drumming are the ONLY terms used).

Ex. you could have a great amount of knowledge of NPS for say, but if you become a real drummer based on only playing songs (without knowing the actual musicality of it), you could barely call yourself a drummer. If you can't read music, know what different note divisions are, understand the bpm of the song and how that affects note divisions, factor in time signatures to see how note divisions work for the song, understand the notation the writer used for the song, etc. (the list goes on and on), then you will be extremely limited as a drummer. The only musical terms you learn about from rock bands are different types of stickings (and if you're really interested in stickings, then rudiments), but even that isn't truly learned in-game.

Whether you think my argument is convincing or not, it's true. Charting and how the drums are set up make an extremely small difference as neither game will make you a real drummer until you buy a set and metronome, get you hands on a basic drum techniques book, and actually apply yourself to learning the MUSIC. So while WT and RB are fun games to play that might build your chops and expose you to other types of songs than you might be used to, it will not make you a drummer.
_________________

I don't play rhythm games so much anymore, but it's a fun break from playing with my band for sure.

Check out my band: http://www.youtube.com/user/EverydayGrindMusic

[ABee1010]

Well I pretty much agree with that. It just seemed like you were trying to say that RB would do a better job of teaching drums. I still think playing WT is a GREAT way to GET STARTED playing drums. Of course at some point you would have to switch over to the real thing to be a real drummer, but I do believe playing WT (or RB) would speed up the learning curve.

I have found with plastic instrument games for guitar and drums alike that the game is actually more benificia to people that already have a solid foundation on the real instrumentl. Playing GH has improved many aspects of my real drumming and guitar playing...

[ABee1010]

Well I pretty much agree with that. It just seemed like you were trying to say that RB would do a better job of teaching drums. I still think playing WT is a GREAT way to GET STARTED playing drums. Of course at some point you would have to switch over to the real thing to be a real drummer, but I do believe playing WT (or RB) would speed up the learning curve.

I have found with plastic instrument games for guitar and drums alike that the game is actually more benificia to people that already have a solid foundation on the real instrumentl. Playing GH has improved many aspects of my real drumming and guitar playing...

[juggledave]

[juggledave]

[adam12343210]

[adam12343210]

[g0dly]

adam you are missing alot with your posts. drumming is alot more simple than you make it sound. to be a "real drummer" all you need to do is pick up your sticks and sit next to your buddy while he is jamming on guitar and make a beat that flows with his guitar. you don't learn to drum by picking up a book and playing with a metronome, that is rediculous. you learn some fundamental beats by doing things like that, but honestly, those books are only for the people who aren't talented enough to pick up the instrument on their own. no drummer has ever created a song by combining beats that they remembered from a book full of beats. guitar hero and rockband drums show you the basic tecniques for playing drums. there is alot of stuff left out, like hi hat pedal, symbals, and the location of the drums themselves, but learning to play these games can help you pretty much bypass all of the "book learning" that you would need to do to be a drummer and get you pretty close to the point where you can jam with your friends and actually start learning to play. i would say that if you were to start taking drum lessons after learning to hold a combo on expert, you would be able to skip the beginner class, and start on intermediate, you would start off by learning how many different sounds you can make with your drums rather than how to hold a beat on your hi hat and snare.


as for which drums are more realistic, its not even close. guitar hero is FAR more realistic than rockband. the only defence you could make for rockband is the fact that you can purchase cymbals which make it so that you can actually hit a cymbal when you are supposed to, but the chart has no way of telling you when its supposed to be a cymbal or a drum, so unless you memorize a song you will hit the green crash expecting to hear the sound of your crash, you hear your drum. not to mention that the hi hat is sometimes red, then in some songs its yellow and in some its blue. its just too rediculous. in guitar hero, you know that when a string of yellows comes up its because you have to hit your hi hat, and a red is a snare. orange is ride, or crash if you are playing yellows. the cymbals and drums are always the same sound except the crash changes depending which cymbal you are on, and sometimes red won't be a snare if it is a situation where the drummer rolls to all three of his other drums. the only bad part is that they had to crush it up so close together that parts like the red blue thing in obsticleI are nearly impossible to play correctly.

[g0dly]

adam you are missing alot with your posts. drumming is alot more simple than you make it sound. to be a "real drummer" all you need to do is pick up your sticks and sit next to your buddy while he is jamming on guitar and make a beat that flows with his guitar. you don't learn to drum by picking up a book and playing with a metronome, that is rediculous. you learn some fundamental beats by doing things like that, but honestly, those books are only for the people who aren't talented enough to pick up the instrument on their own. no drummer has ever created a song by combining beats that they remembered from a book full of beats. guitar hero and rockband drums show you the basic tecniques for playing drums. there is alot of stuff left out, like hi hat pedal, symbals, and the location of the drums themselves, but learning to play these games can help you pretty much bypass all of the "book learning" that you would need to do to be a drummer and get you pretty close to the point where you can jam with your friends and actually start learning to play. i would say that if you were to start taking drum lessons after learning to hold a combo on expert, you would be able to skip the beginner class, and start on intermediate, you would start off by learning how many different sounds you can make with your drums rather than how to hold a beat on your hi hat and snare.


as for which drums are more realistic, its not even close. guitar hero is FAR more realistic than rockband. the only defence you could make for rockband is the fact that you can purchase cymbals which make it so that you can actually hit a cymbal when you are supposed to, but the chart has no way of telling you when its supposed to be a cymbal or a drum, so unless you memorize a song you will hit the green crash expecting to hear the sound of your crash, you hear your drum. not to mention that the hi hat is sometimes red, then in some songs its yellow and in some its blue. its just too rediculous. in guitar hero, you know that when a string of yellows comes up its because you have to hit your hi hat, and a red is a snare. orange is ride, or crash if you are playing yellows. the cymbals and drums are always the same sound except the crash changes depending which cymbal you are on, and sometimes red won't be a snare if it is a situation where the drummer rolls to all three of his other drums. the only bad part is that they had to crush it up so close together that parts like the red blue thing in obsticleI are nearly impossible to play correctly.

[timdorr]

Ignoring the whole realism and WT vs. RB kit arguments, I can say that playing the plastic drums will prepare you for playing the real thing. About 2 months ago I went over to my friend's house to try out his kit. I sat down without having ever sat at a real drum set and nervously started to play. To my surprise, but what resulted actually sounded pretty good! I'm no Neal Peart, but I'm definitely passable for my group of friends who is collectively trying to learn their instruments.

I spent the rest of that day going over notation (both standard and tablature) and getting the handle on a few real world songs. A few weeks later I got a kit of my own and have been practicing ever since. I've got a repertoire of about 5 songs I can play with the group and will probably start lessons next month.

One thing I can point out is that positioning is the biggest change for me. Having to crossover for the hat, having the cymbals up high and farther away, positioning of the toms. A lot of my hesitations while playing came from figuring out where all the pieces to hit went. It's much different from having them all in a straight line right in front of you.

So, for anyone reading this who's curious, see if you can find a friend or someone with a kit they'll let you try out for a little while. Chances are you'll like it

[timdorr]

Ignoring the whole realism and WT vs. RB kit arguments, I can say that playing the plastic drums will prepare you for playing the real thing. About 2 months ago I went over to my friend's house to try out his kit. I sat down without having ever sat at a real drum set and nervously started to play. To my surprise, but what resulted actually sounded pretty good! I'm no Neal Peart, but I'm definitely passable for my group of friends who is collectively trying to learn their instruments.

I spent the rest of that day going over notation (both standard and tablature) and getting the handle on a few real world songs. A few weeks later I got a kit of my own and have been practicing ever since. I've got a repertoire of about 5 songs I can play with the group and will probably start lessons next month.

One thing I can point out is that positioning is the biggest change for me. Having to crossover for the hat, having the cymbals up high and farther away, positioning of the toms. A lot of my hesitations while playing came from figuring out where all the pieces to hit went. It's much different from having them all in a straight line right in front of you.

So, for anyone reading this who's curious, see if you can find a friend or someone with a kit they'll let you try out for a little while. Chances are you'll like it

[adam12343210]

[adam12343210]

[hydropunk]

Adam, I don't know how you can take from my post that I think that playing on GH drums is even close to actually jamming on a real kit. If I weren't playing a video game I would flat out refuse to play on any less than a vdrum kit (if we're talking electric pads). My point I was trying to make was not about the QUALITY of the drums, but rather the charting of the instruments and their complete randomness in Rock Band. Not only that, I did stress that there would absolutely be elements of drumming, including but not limited to drum theory, and timing that would be completely left out, and that this was no more than a stepping stone to beginner drumming classes.

However, I think you completely understood all of that, and rather than accept that some aspiring drummers might take something from their GH drumming experience, you would much rather shoot them down and make them feel like they can ONLY take the path that you took.

Obviously you are a product of high school band or some other such similar path, and more power to you for that... I was as well, but it doesn't mean you absolutely will be a better rock band drummer than some other average joe that never took a lesson in their life. There is no question that there are "self taught" drummers out there that are nowhere near the rudimentary proficiency of a kid in 10th grade in marching band, but they're still out their making albums and going on tours; Lars Ulrich comes to mind if you need a classic example (don't get me started on how bad he is though). At the same time, I absolutely guarantee that Lars couldn't play the stuff the guy in your Youtube videos played, to save his life.

Anyways, I've gone far off topic here, at least from my original post... strayed from my real point. I'll agree with you that books, classes, etc are far and away the best route to take to being a great drummer, but its not the only path to go. I've played with some people that couldn't read off a sheet of music to save their life, but can lay down some seriously killer beats.

[hydropunk]

Adam, I don't know how you can take from my post that I think that playing on GH drums is even close to actually jamming on a real kit. If I weren't playing a video game I would flat out refuse to play on any less than a vdrum kit (if we're talking electric pads). My point I was trying to make was not about the QUALITY of the drums, but rather the charting of the instruments and their complete randomness in Rock Band. Not only that, I did stress that there would absolutely be elements of drumming, including but not limited to drum theory, and timing that would be completely left out, and that this was no more than a stepping stone to beginner drumming classes.

However, I think you completely understood all of that, and rather than accept that some aspiring drummers might take something from their GH drumming experience, you would much rather shoot them down and make them feel like they can ONLY take the path that you took.

Obviously you are a product of high school band or some other such similar path, and more power to you for that... I was as well, but it doesn't mean you absolutely will be a better rock band drummer than some other average joe that never took a lesson in their life. There is no question that there are "self taught" drummers out there that are nowhere near the rudimentary proficiency of a kid in 10th grade in marching band, but they're still out their making albums and going on tours; Lars Ulrich comes to mind if you need a classic example (don't get me started on how bad he is though). At the same time, I absolutely guarantee that Lars couldn't play the stuff the guy in your Youtube videos played, to save his life.

Anyways, I've gone far off topic here, at least from my original post... strayed from my real point. I'll agree with you that books, classes, etc are far and away the best route to take to being a great drummer, but its not the only path to go. I've played with some people that couldn't read off a sheet of music to save their life, but can lay down some seriously killer beats.

[orangeglacier]

[orangeglacier]