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DarylZero
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Boston, MA
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 Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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i should point out i have fced some songs and only gotten 5 stars, but that seemed to occur in the pick your own song gigs in career. not sure what the deal is there.
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Barfo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DarylZero wrote: | | i should point out i have fced some songs and only gotten 5 stars, but that seemed to occur in the pick your own song gigs in career. not sure what the deal is there. |
Multiple people have confirmed it is sensitive to any strum, even before or after the notes in the song. ie, if you strum befor ehte first note you will still get 100%, and have the full streak (ie a FC by standard scorehero definition), but the game will still call that a 100% overstrum and not give you the FC.
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Groudon199 
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 161
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| SpoonMan wrote: | can someone test a low-score FC and see if that gets you six stars anyway just based on FCing the song?
the easiest to do this on is To Be Where There's Life by Oasis (I know a few people out there have this song). it's ALL holds. just drop every hold and dont use SP and you'll easily get a 3* level score while FCing the song. if this displays as 6 stars then idunno how we can realistically have extended star ratings for GH5 at all. |
I don't have the Oasis songs, but I tried it for Wonderwall on Bass. Regardless of score, you will get 6* for an FC (my run was a 4*, but I got 6* for the FC). |
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EXEprog527
Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 176
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Barfo wrote: | | DarylZero wrote: | | i should point out i have fced some songs and only gotten 5 stars, but that seemed to occur in the pick your own song gigs in career. not sure what the deal is there. |
Multiple people have confirmed it is sensitive to any strum, even before or after the notes in the song. ie, if you strum befor ehte first note you will still get 100%, and have the full streak (ie a FC by standard scorehero definition), but the game will still call that a 100% overstrum and not give you the FC. |
oh wow... I didn't even think to try that... thats good to know
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DarylZero
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Boston, MA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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guess that means no more dicking around before/after songs... :p
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Hafkie  
Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 1483
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:35 am Post subject: |
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I think Scorehero shouldn't count 6 Stars as GH5 does.
A 6 star is just a 100% FC. We already track those, so we don't need the 6th star.
As for oddities with the 6 star, I think Neversoft should have just made bit based on your note streak. If the Note Streak is = # of notes in the song, then that is a 6 Star. |
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JCirri
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:44 am Post subject: |
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As people have mentioned, it seems there's just a single career ordering regardless of instrument. Ditching the usual "<instrument> Career" groupings, this brings up some debate on how tier groupings should be defined. I'm thinking to have the following groupings:
| Code: | | Alphabetical | Career | Guitar Intensity | Bass Intensity | Drums Intensity | Vocals Intensity |
What's more unclear, and where I would like to get your feedback, is on how the tiers should be structured within each grouping. For Alphabetical a single large tier probably makes the most sense, since it's a bit meaningless to earn tier ranks for things like "songs that start with the letter R". For Career, the tiers are straightforward as defined by the game, and I'll follow them up with "GHWT Imported" and "DLC" tiers below.
However, for the intensity groupings, there's overlap between GH5 on-disc songs, and other songs. And I see several possible ways to deal with this:
1. Single tier per intensity / all songs included in tier totals
Pros:
- Matches in-game sorting if you own all WT and DLC songs.
- Easy to see relative intensities across all songs at once.
Cons:
- Potentially many songs you don't own mixed in the tiers
- Not necessarily clear which songs are on-disc and contribute to overall total
- Kills competition for tier ranks if you don't own all songs in the tier.
2. Single tier per intensity / GH5 on-disc songs ONLY included in tier totals
Pros:
- Matches in-game sorting if you own all WT and DLC songs.
- Easy to see relative intensities across all songs at once.
Cons:
- Potentially many songs you don't own mixed in the tiers
- Not necessarily clear which songs are on-disc and contribute to both tier and overall totals
- Not all songs are involved in any kind of competition outside individual song ranks
3. Separate set of intensity tiers for: GH5, GHWT, [any future imported games], and DLC
Pros:
- Easy to see GH5 disc songs across all groupings
- GH5 tiers are likely to remain competitive
- All songs are involved in some type of tier rankings
Cons:
- Can't see relative intensities between the groups (i.e. answer questions like "what's the hardest guitar song overall?")
- Possibly confusing to find songs with 3+ different tiers that a given intensity could be placed
4. Separate set of intensity tiers for: GH5 and "Other"
Pros:
- Easy to see GH5 disc songs across all groupings
- GH5 tiers are likely to remain competitive
- All songs are involved in some type of tier rankings
Cons:
- Can't judge relative intensities across the groups (i.e. answer questions like "what's the hardest guitar song overall?")
- Possible loss of potential competition for specific imported games' tiers (as defined in option 3)
I do realize the ideal solution would be a mix of multiple of the above options giving the user the option to choose a preference. But under the current design, all I can do is define a list of tier groupings with one way to structure tiers in each grouping. So with that said, which of the above would you like to see most and why?
I personally think #4 is best as a middle-ground between not straying too much from the in-game quickplay listing, not being overly complicated, and offering a strong level of competition amongst the GH5 tiers.
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Cabanon
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 6462
Location: Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:45 am Post subject: |
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i'd stay classic with "Career" order only with the present design and go the full way with the re-write of the site. this way you guys wont have that much hassle writing the code of it & people complaining about it on the other side.
maybe im too old school ?
BTW JCirri, check the bug error section plz, i posted a bug thats been 1 year old and not fixed yet. thnkx.
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JCirri
Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 4576
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:13 am Post subject: |
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Well there is no extra work involved (in terms of code writing) to implement any of the above 4 options, it's just a matter of inserting different data to existing database tables. On the RB side, support for multiple tier groupings doesn't exist, so it would be significant work to do something similar there and why that likely won't happen until the rewrite.
Barfo and others here have suggested they want the alphabetical listing since that matches the game's ordering the way they play, and is most convenient to browse the list. The way the tiers are set up currently is incorrect. So I need to change them to something else, and might as well try to make them as useful for as many people as possible at the same time. 
Can you PM me a link to the topic you're referring to? I did a quick search for your name in Bug Reports and it looked like everything was addressed.
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GuitarHailz 
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4910
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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This may have been mentioned before, and might be a bit of a hassle to mess with but here we go:
I was uploading some co-op scores the other day and noticed that there is only 1 band streak - we don't seem to have individual streaks at all anymore. But of course in the score upload screen you can enter values for streaks for every instrument. Should these be removed and then replaced by just one single band streak value? If you need a photo of the band screen I can get one later today.
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Gotsmack
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 1693
Location: Manassas, VA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think you gotta keep on-disc stuff separate from everything else, it's the way it's always been done. GH5 shouldn't be any different.
That said, WT/SH/DLC should also be separate.
There is now the issue of how the leaderboards would look when tiered by intensity. Some instruments don't have a song for each intensity level, i.e. there is no Guitar Intensity 10 song on disc. This could leave the leaderboards looking blocky and unfinished. Neversoft didn't take the RB approach when creating the intensity teirs - 84/7 = 12 songs per tier, then they stuck DLC wherever they thought it should belong in relation to the on-disc stuff. It makes for a nice looking leaderboard.
So, my thought is to ignore teiring the songs at all. I like sorting by intensity, and teir by game - GH5/WT/SH/DLC. |
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Wattershed
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1001
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| I cast my vote on the third option. That one makes the most sense. |
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singemfrc 
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4406
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Option 3 is nice, but Option 4 is better IMO. The less tiers the better, but you still want to keep the on disc seperate from everything else, so I think having seperate tiers for GH5 and then seperate for all other songs would work best while keeping the list easy to navigate. |
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Barfo
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| GuitarHailz wrote: | This may have been mentioned before, and might be a bit of a hassle to mess with but here we go:
I was uploading some co-op scores the other day and noticed that there is only 1 band streak - we don't seem to have individual streaks at all anymore. But of course in the score upload screen you can enter values for streaks for every instrument. Should these be removed and then replaced by just one single band streak value? If you need a photo of the band screen I can get one later today. |
If ytou push D-pad twice in the band results screen you can see this, (plus i think it is in the slo ma splash at the end.
Teh extra stats buried on the results screen (selectable with dpad) are :
* (default) accuracy : ind pplayer percentages
* contribution (?) : single player score (?)
* streak: single player note streak
* highest multiplier : single player highest multi achieved (ie it goes up to 8)
* challenge status (?) : the 'challenge meter' for any player who had a qualifying instrument for the challenge, n/a for a player who didnt, and if it was a band challenge, it clones the shared band challenge meter to show for each player.
As far as my choice of options, first off for alphabetical id like tiers (and alphabetic sorting) set up by game the song is from (originally): Gh5, WT, SH, all DLC (ie exactly the way that RB2 handles this). That way if you are just entering a binch of GH5 songs you dont have to scroll past 100's of DLC that you dont own. Also would make it easier/faster for somebody who knows right away that their song is from WT/SH/DLC. If that is done witht he alphabet then for the intensity id say just do option 1 or possibly option 2. (dont need to split out the game type on the intensity charts, if its already done in the alphabetic one)
more stats shows: for each player: notes hit / total notes, sp hit / total SP, and avg individual multiplier (seems to be individual single player score / individual single player base score), and for the whol eband it shows band moments hit / total band moments.
Also another important issue: stars no longer go from 3-6 anymore, you can achieve stars under 3*. Wormania confirmed this yesterday with a low score run of some songs on easy. The star indicator during gameplay is now always correct with your score (no more filling up by itself due to time throught he song so that it ends on 3* like in GHM/SH). worm did some estimates of the scores where the cutoffs *seem* to be lining up to 0.1 / 0.65 / 0.9 / 2.0 / 2.8 times the base score for the 1 thru 5 star scores, i mean tot reconfirm this last night, but I didnt get a chance - i *will* confirm this tonight and get basically some exact cutoffs for 1 thru 5 stars on a song or two so that we can be mathematically precise. Note that the avg multi for whatever reason still displays as '1.000' when you are less than the base score (also data taken by worm, not me). That was all on gtr bass, obv need to confirm this stuff for other instruments too. Once the system is figured out we should probably update it to accept 0-6 stars scores entry.
Also if anybody wants to help out, write down your avg multi and put it in your scores as 'BPP:  ##x' as the beginning of your comment. Single player runs only for now until we prove that the contribution and individual multiplier scores in band coop are perfectly coherent with the single player ones. I might or might not use that data, but having the data start to get collected might be a helpful thing in the future if I do end up doing cutoffs proofing, etc.
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Watching her, these things she said / "Time," she cried "failed to wait, this time"
***
Hush now / Let it go now / I know it's time to go / Time to let this fall / From my hands |
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GuitarHailz
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 4910
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Shows how perceptive I am. Nevermind JC, just ignore me. 
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