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Guitar Hero 5 Vox Opinions/Rants
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think13  





Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Guitar Hero 5 Vox Opinions/Rants Reply with quote

Here are my opinions after playing through several songs on GH5 yesterday.
These are valid for the Wii version, there may be some differences with the other versions.

Good:
Freeforms don't give you points anymore!!! Scales are for warmup, Neversoft.
The new scoring system (if I understand it correctly) makes 100% possible and allows for variation in top scores.
'Progress Bar' for phrases lets me know how I'm doing.
The points screen at the end of the song is very good-easily readable and simple.
It's possible to get more SP on phrases if you sing well. This works towards the goal of having the best singers get the best score-a plus in my book.

Okay:
Only certain phrases give you SP. I don't have a strong opinion on this one, though it should make pathing easier.

Bad:
Basically, I think the interface is horrible. Not everyone plays on humongous projectors.
The lyrics are still impossible to read.
The pitch line is very skinny, and it's hard to tell when I'm on pitch without the Rock Band style arrow.
The comet is obscured by this strange green line-why??
The Star Power meter is incredibly tiny-it's hard to tell when I have SP ready.

Feel free to add your own opinions/rants.
Overall, I've felt this game will be harder to get FCs on-though it may be just the new songs and horrible interface that's tripping me up.
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dr00bles  





Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 586
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Guitar Hero 5 Vox Opinions/Rants Reply with quote

think13 wrote:
Here are my opinions after playing through several songs on GH5 yesterday.
These are valid for the Wii version, there may be some differences with the other versions.

Good:
Freeforms don't give you points anymore!!! Scales are for warmup, Neversoft.
The new scoring system (if I understand it correctly) makes 100% possible and allows for variation in top scores.
'Progress Bar' for phrases lets me know how I'm doing.
The points screen at the end of the song is very good-easily readable and simple.
It's possible to get more SP on phrases if you sing well. This works towards the goal of having the best singers get the best score-a plus in my book.

Okay:
Only certain phrases give you SP. I don't have a strong opinion on this one, though it should make pathing easier.

Bad:
Basically, I think the interface is horrible. Not everyone plays on humongous projectors.
The lyrics are still impossible to read.
The pitch line is very skinny, and it's hard to tell when I'm on pitch without the Rock Band style arrow.
The comet is obscured by this strange green line-why??
The Star Power meter is incredibly tiny-it's hard to tell when I have SP ready.

Feel free to add your own opinions/rants.
Overall, I've felt this game will be harder to get FCs on-though it may be just the new songs and horrible interface that's tripping me up.

I agree with most of this. Other things:

Additional Good:
-You are rewarded more for singing long phrases than for singing short ones. Points are based solely on ticks.
-It's conceivable to "fill in" every part of the phrase in this engine. In WT, it was basically impossible to stay within the bounds the whole time, but in GH5, it's definitely doable.
- You can actually read your progress during star power now! Actually, it's EASIER to see how you're singing when you're in star power.

Additional Bad:
- I kind of liked that in WT, the comet left a trail behind it, so you could see how under or over you were compared to the phrases. It also would make me realize if I was scooping at the beginning or ends of phrases. Here, there is no such luck. It's hard to examine what I did wrong in a given phrase.
- In practice mode, it doesnt show you the progress meter OR your rating (Excellent, Solid, etc.). This is VERY frustrating, and kind of defeats the purpose of practice mode. I know if shows the %, but it's hard to translate this into total phrases when you're practicing 14 phrases at a time.
- It's hard to differentiate between the talkie lines and the singing lines. The talkie lines are just a bit fatter.
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StormEagle  





Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 636
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you played the Wii version. How is the pitch detection? Is it as lenient als Smash Hits or is it harder to stay within the pitch lines?
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Icemage  





Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Good:
+ Scoring is based on length of time singing accurately
+ Squeezable star power phrases are win
+ Hollow pipes make it a little easier to read the note chart
+ Seeing what sections are filled in makes it easier to see where the missed ticks are
+ Timing seems more lenient than WT or even Metallica.

The Bad:
- Star power bar is in a really inconvenient place to read, I keep having to track my eyes to the left if I want to see how much SP I have.
- Talky sections don't register whispers, even when they're called for by the song
- Lyric fonts are uncomfortably difficult to read, even on my 50" 1080p TV.

The Ugly:
- I can't tell whether I'm high or low if I miss a tick by more than 1 semitone but less than about a note and a half since the ball blends into the pipes
- If I'm just slightly off-key but not enough to miss ticks I still can't tell. There's no visual feedback for being just slightly out of tune.

Overall, this is still a vast improvement over GH: World Tour. I still like RB2's vocal system better, but this system is at least "acceptable".

EDIT: Re: Stormeagle
I've confirmed with Memesis that the pitch detection on Expert vocals is exactly 1 semitone of leniency. No more, no less.

For those who want to compare, Rock Band 2 uses 1.4 semitones, and Rock Band 1 used 1.2 semitones.
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Thirdkoopa  





Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 1041

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icemage wrote:

The Bad:
- Star power bar is in a really inconvenient place to read, I keep having to track my eyes to the left if I want to see how much SP I have.
- Talky sections don't register whispers, even when they're called for by the song + They're a bit unnoticeable, just bold?
- Lyric fonts are uncomfortably difficult to read, even on my 50" 1080p TV.

The Ugly: If you're going to fix one thing in a patch NS, make it this:
- I can't tell whether I'm high or low if I miss a tick by more than 1 semitone but less than about a note and a half since the ball blends into the pipes
- If I'm just slightly off-key but not enough to miss ticks I still can't tell. There's no visual feedback for being just slightly out of tune.

I agree with you fully (Added two comments and bold), and everything in this thread, but I mainly want it showing If you're off a pitch badly.

Also more: Freeforms - What the hell is the point now? I understand drums but couldn't this at least give some SP Or make your meter go up?
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Raikri999  





Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1573

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thirdkoopa wrote:
Icemage wrote:

The Bad:
- Star power bar is in a really inconvenient place to read, I keep having to track my eyes to the left if I want to see how much SP I have.
- Talky sections don't register whispers, even when they're called for by the song + They're a bit unnoticeable, just bold?
- Lyric fonts are uncomfortably difficult to read, even on my 50" 1080p TV.

The Ugly: If you're going to fix one thing in a patch NS, make it this:
- I can't tell whether I'm high or low if I miss a tick by more than 1 semitone but less than about a note and a half since the ball blends into the pipes
- If I'm just slightly off-key but not enough to miss ticks I still can't tell. There's no visual feedback for being just slightly out of tune.

I agree with you fully (Added two comments and bold), and everything in this thread, but I mainly want it showing If you're off a pitch badly.

Also more: Freeforms - What the hell is the point now? I understand drums but couldn't this at least give some SP Or make your meter go up?
Freeforms make your meter go up. But I have to say, it barely makes it go up, I would rather them not be in the game at all to be honest.

The real only thing that I hate in GH5 is the scoring system. Now, some of you have known that by IRC, I have gotten multiple different scores by doing the same exact thing, mainly on the Children of Bodom song, Done With Everything Die For Nothing(Correct?). I haven't done anything different, I just had a simple pitch, and a simple path(which seems like optimal, but I'm not sure.). What doesn't make sense here is that they're all talkies, so they should have the same scoring, and I should get the same score, but I don't. I really want to find out though.
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StormEagle  





Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 636
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aw, maaan. I want this game NAO! I want to try out the vocals myself. Only 1 semitone? Even stricter than Rock Band 1? Great, I hate that game.
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dr00bles  





Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 586
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raikri999 wrote:
Thirdkoopa wrote:
Icemage wrote:

The Bad:
- Star power bar is in a really inconvenient place to read, I keep having to track my eyes to the left if I want to see how much SP I have.
- Talky sections don't register whispers, even when they're called for by the song + They're a bit unnoticeable, just bold?
- Lyric fonts are uncomfortably difficult to read, even on my 50" 1080p TV.

The Ugly: If you're going to fix one thing in a patch NS, make it this:
- I can't tell whether I'm high or low if I miss a tick by more than 1 semitone but less than about a note and a half since the ball blends into the pipes
- If I'm just slightly off-key but not enough to miss ticks I still can't tell. There's no visual feedback for being just slightly out of tune.

I agree with you fully (Added two comments and bold), and everything in this thread, but I mainly want it showing If you're off a pitch badly.

Also more: Freeforms - What the hell is the point now? I understand drums but couldn't this at least give some SP Or make your meter go up?
Freeforms make your meter go up. But I have to say, it barely makes it go up, I would rather them not be in the game at all to be honest.

The real only thing that I hate in GH5 is the scoring system. Now, some of you have known that by IRC, I have gotten multiple different scores by doing the same exact thing, mainly on the Children of Bodom song, Done With Everything Die For Nothing(Correct?). I haven't done anything different, I just had a simple pitch, and a simple path(which seems like optimal, but I'm not sure.). What doesn't make sense here is that they're all talkies, so they should have the same scoring, and I should get the same score, but I don't. I really want to find out though.

Depends on where you use your SP. Also, even with talkies, it's possible to miss ticks here and there. Minor moments of silence will decrease your base ticks, and then when you factor in a x4 or x8 multiplier, they can add up.
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StormEagle  





Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 636
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hope that GH5 wont turn into a humfest like Metallica. What is the point of making this engine so strict? You don't have to hit the notes exactly in time on the other instruments either.
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dr00bles  





Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 586
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StormEagle wrote:
I really hope that GH5 wont turn into a humfest like Metallica. What is the point of making this engine so strict? You don't have to hit the notes exactly in time on the other instruments either.

Honestly, dude, I think they make it tough so that it stays competitive among other instruments. If vocals was more lenient, it wouldn't have the same level of "challenge" as the other instruments. As it is, vocals get no respect. Can you imagine if any Joe Schmo could FC Stone Cold Crazy?
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StormEagle  





Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 636
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just have fear that nobody wants to play vocals in this game. World Tour, Metallica, Smash Hits, 4% maybe play vocals on expert on these ones. (I was ranked 2 overall on Wii after singing every song only once after the EU launch which was TWO MONTHS after the US launch). And I'm not THAT good! And now that you can have 4 guitarists or 4 drummers, it' even harder for the vocalists to get recognised. Just look at this forum. Almost empty.

Edit: And I think the competeticve scene is perfectly suited with the new points per ticks system.
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dr00bles  





Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 586
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, there are a few moments in Sweating Bullets where random words in the talkie sections are pitched. They are ridiculous. He is NOT SINGING. Neversoft will argue, "But you can discern a pitch in his voice!" Yes, this is true, but speaking is tonal! It's still a long way from singing. These parts are incredibly difficult because the brain does not perceive them as melodies.

Technically, you could pitch a Beastie Boys song too. They're always producing SOME pitch, but no one would agree that they're singing.
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dogfoodnyc  





Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 1218
Location: New Hyde Park, NY

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of the good points were mentioned above. For myself:

I love the scoring system b/c now pathing on longer phrases or multiple phrases becomes a bitch and it will be so wild open.

I HATE the fact that there's no more fireball to tell you how much off you are on a particular pitch

I also don't like how in the practice section they do percentages instead of the meter. This pretty much forces you to sing each phrase by itself if you want to for sure nail it instead of doing it in chunks.

Other than that, I just need to really learn the song.. way too many songs that I never heard of nor do I have any desire to pick up.
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AfterTheFlash  





Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree on the talkies vs singing notes, it took me a few tries on the gorillaz song to notice that. Quite annoying, also the not having a trail is very annoying its very hard to tell if your barely off.

Though one thing that is awesome is in breaks it will warn you when your going to have start singing again. I've also had a weird random glitch, that for some reason on a restart of a song, i'll have a band of 4 vocalists, this is on local career.
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Raikri999  





Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 1573

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr00bles wrote:
Raikri999 wrote:
Thirdkoopa wrote:
Icemage wrote:

The Bad:
- Star power bar is in a really inconvenient place to read, I keep having to track my eyes to the left if I want to see how much SP I have.
- Talky sections don't register whispers, even when they're called for by the song + They're a bit unnoticeable, just bold?
- Lyric fonts are uncomfortably difficult to read, even on my 50" 1080p TV.

The Ugly: If you're going to fix one thing in a patch NS, make it this:
- I can't tell whether I'm high or low if I miss a tick by more than 1 semitone but less than about a note and a half since the ball blends into the pipes
- If I'm just slightly off-key but not enough to miss ticks I still can't tell. There's no visual feedback for being just slightly out of tune.

I agree with you fully (Added two comments and bold), and everything in this thread, but I mainly want it showing If you're off a pitch badly.

Also more: Freeforms - What the hell is the point now? I understand drums but couldn't this at least give some SP Or make your meter go up?
Freeforms make your meter go up. But I have to say, it barely makes it go up, I would rather them not be in the game at all to be honest.

The real only thing that I hate in GH5 is the scoring system. Now, some of you have known that by IRC, I have gotten multiple different scores by doing the same exact thing, mainly on the Children of Bodom song, Done With Everything Die For Nothing(Correct?). I haven't done anything different, I just had a simple pitch, and a simple path(which seems like optimal, but I'm not sure.). What doesn't make sense here is that they're all talkies, so they should have the same scoring, and I should get the same score, but I don't. I really want to find out though.

Depends on where you use your SP. Also, even with talkies, it's possible to miss ticks here and there. Minor moments of silence will decrease your base ticks, and then when you factor in a x4 or x8 multiplier, they can add up.
I held the exact same pitch, and I used the same exact SP path. If you really want, if Piano pitches work in this game, I haven't tested, I'll do a video with No SP and talkies, and I'm sure I'll get a different score each time on the same pitch.
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